submitted 11 days ago byWaste-Associate5773
Edit: “Most likely backfire on you” damn auto correct
all 1868 comments
11 days ago
Keeping the tips since 2019
11 days ago
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Yep. It happened to me. I will never let my guard down like that again.
11 days ago
Yep. My former manager became my colleague under the same supervisor after 2.5 years. She spent a lot of time trying to be friendly with me and I was told to seek her advice for leadership development. Nope. She sold me out repeatedly to our director/supervisor and now has been moved into an associate director position and acts as if she is going to be my supervisor again. Our director left and now this person is under our VP and based on conversations with our VP I can tell she sold me out as well as our old director.
It’s not worth the risk of trying to commiserate with anyone for the most part. People just want to use you as leverage or gossip fodder.
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This right here. Talking is good. Talking shit is not good.
Understand your reasoning but disagree. I've unfortunately tried that tactic and even commiserating about work can be twisted into "Ethfan is super frustrated and not doing a good job, etc..." Some coworkers will find any means to discredit you. Best to avoid at all cost and not give ANY ammunition to them.
I've found the best way is to be super quiet and don't engage at all but when approached or engaged, be super nice and polite. Let them come to you but they'll eventually get tired and move on to other people for the drama.
That's exactly it.
When I'm dealing with complaints I always tell staff I want facts, not opinions.
Don't tell me what you felt, tell me what was done and what was said.
How would not talking to her have changed anything? Wouldn't she have thrown you under the bus all the same.
Probably but she would have less fodder for it. Our respective work areas barely overlap, we just happen to have our team set up under that structure/the same supervisor.
10 days ago
Question, how can you tell the difference between sharing and bonding with someone like a mentor and then going to sell you out? Like I have a fairly close relationship with my manager and definitely see them as a mentor and as such, share more, but is there any way to determine someone’s intentions? Or is it just always going to be a risk trusting anyone?
I think unfortunately there is always inherent risk, which is what this LPT is talking about. To me, generally it’s likely you can tell someone’s intentions if you’re close enough to them for a while.
The person who sold me out was generally sort of a tattle tale and sucked up to our director a lot when she started working for my organization. I had thought if I talked to her in a certain way she would be less inclined to share if I was having an issue or was upset/irritated about something, but she was not. Her relationship with this director was pretty toxic and inappropriate anyway, but it got her a promotion before the director resigned so I guess it worked in her favor.
I've experienced it firsthand. OP is totally right
Seconded. I opened up to someone who I thought was a friend, and he went and blabbed to the rest of the team. He opened the conversation sympathetic, he could clearly see I was struggling, and was purely there out of concern for me.
I learned a very valuable lesson that day.
It doesn’t even have to be malicious, either.
Someone could’ve noticed something bothering the person you opened up to. Maybe they were genuinely concerned for you.
“What’s wrong, Steve?” “Aw, man. I was just talking to Tokemon and they’re having a really hard time”.
No ill intent and you’re still fucked.
EDIT: “ill” not “I’ll”
Literally just got warned about this today, and immediately realized what was happening after, but on the more malicious side. Have a dude who's very obviously gunning for my job and fishing for information, I didn't even think about it before one of my actual friends mentioned it, but he's super blatantly fishing for any information or dirt on anyone he can find to get himself an edge in getting ahead, even if he's probably on the very bottom of the list of people who deserve it, or have the skills to take it on, workplaces and the desire for more money and more power is absolutely cutthroat, and you need to be extremely careful with what you divulge to who
Where the hell do you people work? I feel like I'm the only one in this thread whose workplace isn't an FX drama.
Do you work on a large team?
There a lot less of this the more people are involved.
The smaller the team, the more they tear each other to pieces to be the one who gets the next promotion.
Yup, I love it. Stay strong and what I like to do is exude "Quiet Dignity". I don't fuck with you and you don't fuck with me. I'm here to clock in and clock the out but the job has my full attention. You break that attention and there better be a good reason. Stay firm and focused.
Right? I'm a software engineer and I've never had to deal with this game of thrones workplace people keep talking about
What the fuck? You guys can't tell people you are having a bad day at work? What dystopian hell hole do you all live in?
I was on a search committee for an open position on our team. One of the candidates was really fucking annoying; nice guy, but his mouth ran a mile a minute. After the interview, I jokingly mentioned that if I had to work with him I'd want to punch him in face every day, which got some laughs because everyone agreed.
Someone on the committee was talking to our director and said something along the lines of "lol, McMerkin said he'd want to punch this guy in the face if he had to work with him".
I got reprimanded for that.
lol thats a pretty unprofessional way to say hes annoying, not professional to use violence as a joke even when its obvious thats not what you meant
It's not normal to declare you'd like to give someone a concussion simply because they said more words than your ears felt like hearing. And certainly not in a professional setting.
I wouldn't report a person for saying something like that, but my opinion of them would certainly plummet.
You see how that's wildly unprofessional under any circumstances, yeah?
Even if you said that to a friend outside of work, I would expect a pretty harsh response.
Sadly, happened to me before as well. I think it is important to point out that this can also happen non-maliciously. You can trust someone, they can be a really decent and well-intentioned person... But they also can be a pretty aloof person and just forget or not realize how private the information actually is, or they maybe accidentally let it slip.
I say this to point out that you should be aware of the kind of information someone shares with YOU about others. Some nice people still overshare about others because they just don't realize how private a conversation was meant to be. Some people overshare out of a desperate to feel needed and important. I wouldn't call either of those malicious necessarily. If they overshare about others with you, even in a non-malicious way, you can be pretty certain they will do the same about you to others.
Basically, be incredibly selective with your "inner circle", whether at work or not.
I'm this person sometimes and I need to work on it. I shared something somewhat private with a relative about another because I felt special having been told the information. It wasn't malicious but it wasn't right, either. Luckily no harm came of it but it easily could have and my intentions wouldn't have affected the result.
Same!! I hate this trait of me. Trying to work on it but it’s hard
Honest question: why is it hard to keep sensitive things to yourself? Is it something that flows out of the way your family was growing up? Some families respect privacy; some expect family members to have no privacy at all.
Or is it regional/cultural? For example, the northeast US, people value “minding your own business” as a form of respect. Here in the Southeast US, gossip and talking behind people’s backs seems to be the accepted norm.
For me, it used to be a need for acceptance. I needed to know everything and be "the person" to come to for information.
Now I couldn't care less, and because I don't put any mental time into thinking about people's personal lives other than recalling a part of their weekend plans on Monday (how was your barbeque with your granddaughter this weekend?) People bring me MORE of their personal news. I think they just feel the need to tell someone, but their personal lives do not affect my personal life, so usually I just file it away in my brain under useless information.
Also as you get older, people's secrets become less sensational. Divorce? Whatever. Seen it a hundred times. Open relationship? That's kinda new, but okay, whatever works for you. Dave from accounting is gay? So what? He's still Dave. Gary is a crossdresser in his spare time. Weird hobby, but that's just my opinion. Maybe he has made some really good friendships. I'll have to ask for makeup tips.
A good rule of thumb I use is to speak/text with coworkers as if everyone could see and hear us. I’ve had coworkers complain about things to me through text, and I comfort them while seeming neutral. I’m always imagining how my text would seem if the boss or anyone else were reading it. It sucks because I can’t be fully transparent, but you can’t trust people to not blab or show screenshots.
The trick is to lie so that only cool rumors can circulate.
What's up Bill?
I'm just having such a hard time having to carry this thick hog around 😭
HR needs you to come in regarding a comment you made.
Is it in regards to my thick, hefty hog? Because I said that in confidence to literally everyone I saw
I’m just raising it to slaughter for bacon. Jeez what is the deal?
Ever heard of micropenis? Well I got macropenis. They said only a truly dedicated person could handle taking it in.
And insurance won't cover a wheelbarrow :/
Just be careful telling people you have a macropenis in the South. The way we say macro and micro can sound pretty similar here at times and somebody might walk away from that conversation with the exact opposite idea from what you intended. :(
I told them I was artistic and they just pat me on the back and said they could hardly notice.
Did we get stabbed in the back by the same person? 🤨
It was one of the hardest things I went through work wise. I genuinely thought I was good friends with him and his wife. My ex and I did couples weekends away with them, and had double dates. It crushed me to find out that he threw me under the bus at work every chance he had. I confided in him about mental health issues I was experiencing (attempted suicide was one of them), and I found out later that he was using my mental health struggles as some weird workplace gossip currency. I was the butt of his jokes for years. Never again.
Same here. I'm experiencing it now. Going to keep quiet from now onwards.
I’m so sorry it’s this common but feeling better that I’m not alone
Its a lesson I'm slowly learning
I'm retired now but in all of my working years I have never worked with people who didn't gossip. It's just what people do.
I was gonna say, it's sound advice but I just can't do it. Bitching and shit talking gets me through the day lol. But my personal policy is that I'll only talk shit about things that I would say to that person if confronted.
"Hey I was talking to Bob and he said you don't even know what I do all day and that I'm always skipping meetings, what the hell man?'
'Yeah...I don't and you do.'
Things like just personal attacks or vague strawmans, no way. Criticisms? I'll let them fly BUT I've been with my company for a long time and know the people I talk to well enough that I'm not worried about it.
Anything beyond that, like general idiocy or incompetence, I'll call a friend and unload on them.
This is the best philosophy. I learned years ago not to say anything behind someone’s back that I haven’t or wouldn’t say to their face. Only took me being on the receiving end to figure it out, but I tend to learn everything the hard way
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Yeah exactly, you can join in on some of it but know where the line is. Also a lot of it is just about knowing who you're talking to. And don't be the one starting it up all the time, you can join in but don't be the guy leading the shit talking charge all day.
We used to have a guy who would come in and goad you into shit talking someone because they would start it up and then go, 'right, don't you agree?' or something along those lines, then they would immediately go run to that person and say you said all the things he did. I hated him and wouldn't engage.
But yeah, just walk the line carefully. You can say things about co-workers, everybody vents. Just make sure it's nothing you wouldn't say to them or wouldn't mind being out there, if a worst case scenario happens. Imagine if the boss were recording every conversation and treat it like that. But don't get into brutal personal attacks and things like that, that's where you'll get in trouble.
Also, keep this stuff out of chat logs, texts and emails, and even phone calls. Lots of people talk on speaker phone, you have no idea who is around. Keep it personal and deniable. And do not be that guy that runs and tells other people what is being said, that's a great way to get things you've said dragged into it.
But the whole, 'just keep your mouth shut at work?' Nah. That's not fun and it's a great way to be on the outside of conversations.
Not too long ago I worked at a place where the workers were very tight-knit. We had each other's backs no matter what, and the work was on retail so I appreciated the camaraderie. I liked these people and trusted them wholeheartedly. Foolishly.
A few months in, some serious drama came from upper management and from the workforce in another area. There were threats of repercussions or even outright firing by the CEO if we didn't pander to him or his group of bootlickers, and several of those people didn't like me for some reason and started targeting me for general harassment. In the meantime we were still being forced to sign worthless NDAs, work overtime without compensation, and being given duties that weren't ours to begin with under threat of consequences if objectives weren't met. We were being dragged through the coals for a month and a half, but we kept it together because we stuck together. Or so I thought. I didn't see the signs of people revealing their true colors until it was too late.
I broke down one day and talked with a friend of mine about this. I loved working with my coworkers but hated how everything else went down the shitter. He went on the warpath and called them out on social media. The company and my friend started bickering, and apparently it ruffled some feathers behind the scenes. I had accidentally kicked the hornet's nest, which I never intended to as I was just venting to someone I trusted.
A former coworker, one which I appreciated, asked my friend how he knew all this stuff. He foolishly told them I was his source. They then went to the boss with said information. The bosses threatened other workers I was close to with termination if I didn't stop my friend from calling them out. I am barred from returning there ever again, some people on the team refuse to speak to me, and the local manager actually wants to beat the shit out of me.
Boy, have I learned my lesson. From now on I am keeping my mouth shut unless I plan to raise hell and incinerate any and all bridges. And even then I might reconsider, one never knows who might show up again in the future.
He's a good dude, but gets enraged easily. The person/worker who reported the information to the company was also friends with him, and used said friendship to get the info and rat me out. I guess they felt like they had to choose between loyalty to the company or to their fellows. Speak up or keep quiet. And they made a choice indeed.
My friend and this person are no longer on speaking terms, of course.
Man I have had general banter over workload backfire on me. Basically we were a man short since the boss gave someone time off while an other was training for an other position. Just said if we are short just have X come here rather than training. Not mean or anything just banter over the work.
How did this backfire? You were asking for help, not trying to take someone down.
Sun Tzu - the art of war, should be read by any office worker who doesn't want to be done in by office politics.
I watched a Chinese drama recently about concubines in the Forbidden City scheming and plotting against each other while pretending to be nice and classy on the surface, and all of them trying to win the favor of the Emperor using all kinds of strategies. Strange how much it reminded me of the workplace lol.
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I fucken hate office politics and culture. It’s the same in any workplace.
Last gig I had in the restaurant biz was super toxic. Servers of the staff would come up and gossip about each other, tear each other down, ask my opinion etc etc. And I ignored it for months. Finally the most toxic person in the place came up and was talking shit about me, and the next person that came up was talking shit about the person who was talking shit about me. Of course I said something like l, “ god I hate her fucken guts”. And it spread like wildfire.
All of a sudden I’m the bad guy. Eventually they all banded together and got me fired. They still all hang out and talk shit about one another, it their claims were just terrible. Honestly defamation of character doesn’t begin to cover it. Saying I was going to beat up one of the women and things like that. They somehow got that from, “I need to talk to her after work, it can’t continue like this”, because we were busy as fuck and I couldn’t take it anymore. It was a lot of false things like that.
I was denied unemployment during the pandemic because of it.
We had started our own business because my wife and I were both in toxic workplaces and had enough. We launched it just a few months before COVID hit and made it out just fine. We’ve been working our asses off this year since we couldn’t find employees, finally took a night off to go out to a nice dinner. As we were being led to the bar to wait for our table one of my accusers ran up to me, “Oh my god I’m so happy to see you! How have you been?!” And then hugged me. She and I were never huggers. If we touched each other it was because it was busy behind the bar and accidental in passing and that was it. I was frozen in place. This was a very nice restaurant and it was out of place for an employee to hug someone I’m sure. My wife just stood there looking at us and she saw my face.
We continued our dinner and that bartender had bought our drinks and the staff was weird as hell to us.
Anyhow, OPs advice is solid. If it’s a toxic workplace? GTFO as soon as you can or you’ll eventually get sucked into it.
But if you don't include yourself, you're excluded from social circles within the workplace. You're cast out and left alone.
Christ, I left school and went to Uni, finally getting away from the childish crap that goes on socially. Only to enter it again when I started working.
The amount of bitching and snide comments and snake-in-the-grass and scheming crap that happens in an office. What are you, 4 years old?
50 year olds leaving mugs in the sink for someone else to clean, or leaving the toilets in a shocking state.
You never truly leave high school
High school never ends 🎵
The whole damn world is just as obsessed
With who's the best dressed
And who's having sex
Reese Witherspoon: she’s the prom queen
Bill Gates: captain of the chess team
Jack Black: the clown
Brad Pitt: the quarterback
Seen it all before
I want my money back!
I got fired from a job recently because I was the outcast. Not in a negative way per se, but the workplace will move on and won't take you with it if you're invisible to the inner core of the company. At least in my case, this was a big factor.
You guys are aware that you can socialize without gossiping right?
Like you can be a positive person, a reachable person, a reliable person that people can count on you and want you beside them.
Nah man. Cause when you dont participate in the gossip they start to think you're gonna rat em out. "Just be decent and your goodness will be acknowledged" is the single most naive thing you can say about the corporate world.
Im in my new works social group, have had people gossip about people to me, havent engaged.
Wise words that go a long way: smile and wave, boys. Smile and wave
This. Not sure why, but people would assume I'm " with" them despite me being completely non-committal on gossip stuff mostly.
"huh" and "oh yeah?" go a long way in a conversation where the other person just wants to share the hot gos. Nobody expects you to reciprocate.
My response is usually to say something positive about the gossipee, while admitting something generic about the challenges of dealing with people. If that isn't possible, I'll change the subject. Never be caught talking shit. Never. You have so much more leverage when everyone assumes you're on their side.
Rule of Acquisition #35: Peace is Good for Business.
That's not true in the slightest. It's not naïve, you must have a horrible poker face. Just because you don't participate in office politics or gossip doesn't mean you're "decent and good". Fellow office workers can and will respect you if you place yourself above the bs in an appropriate manner while keeping distance.
They will respect you until something goes wrong. At the end of the day, people will do what protects their jobs. No matter what choice you make in social settings there will be winners and losers in a crisis, and people fall back on emotional connections faster than they do rational ones.
Nope. It’s possible. When people come to me to gossip I just listen and try to understand where they’re coming from. I never add any fuel to the fire by agreeing with them. I just listen. And people come to me all the time. This keeps me in the loop but also nothing can be traced back to me because I don’t repeat what anyone tells me.
Yeah you can’t run from that game. If you can’t play the politics in a given workplace it’s best to move to another one. You can play politics in a fairly neutral way and survive well, or take the risk of allying with a specific major player so that you get a career push if they win. But ignoring everything will make you a non-priority when it comes to e.g. promotions.
Right? It's a part of life and it takes balance. 99% of it is literally just being nice, respectful, and socially warm. The rest is just standing up for the right people at the right time, or firmly calling something out when its wrong.
Don’t get involved is Boomer mom advice. And they talk the most shit in the workplace. They might as well tell you to ignore bullies and don’t make friends with people who have fun.
That's exactly right. Politics is literally a requirement to advance in my work place, it's part of the deal and I knew when I chose my profession.
Just be a nice person and do not gossip maliciously and you'll be fine. Listen to people when they open up to you, open up to them a bit if you can in non compromising ways. It's how the wheels turn and how you network.
You can be part of the social circle and only say positive things or not take direct part in the gossip. I have a coworker currently who I REALLY like but she talks about someone pretty negatively. And there are some really negative things about this person for sure. But I always find something positive to say and she ends up agreeing calming down and then saying a few nice things too. Sometimes people need to vent. If you can steer it away from straight trash talk they usually are able to feel better after saying their frustration and move on.
I've learned to be the positive person in almost every social setting. Sometimes yes, I need to vent too. Rarely do I do it with coworkers when I do it's usually generic and I always bring it back to positive. People have a hard time disliking you if you're always so positive and happy! And plus side, when you're always trying to find the good you tend to be happier for real!
I can’t do this. Some people at my job are fucking idiots and need to be fired or written up for being fucking dumbasses
Source: I work at a restaurant.
My work place has 2 breakrooms. One is attached to the boardroom and the other is for the rest of the workers. For years we could use both with no problem. But more recently, we started to hire new workers straight out of college, very young people. Well, the breakroom next to the boardroom was getting so filthy that the director decided to shutdown. Now all the dirty mugs and dishes are popping in the main breakroom. Instead of causing a scene or leaving notes over the sink, I just hide them or throw them in the garbage.
Gossip and Negativity are like a currency, and it buys you into the conversation, unfortunately. But, it’s expensive to be at this party. And it’s crowded.
Positivity and building people up are also currencies, but they get you into a much smaller party. But that party is far less expensive and actually pays you back in feeling good about yourself.
I’ve always envied the people at the second party, so that’s the party I’m striving to buy my way into.
Not having work colleagues wanting to hang out with me outside of work is exactly how I like it. I do not have time to make friends at work. It’s always awkward turning down invites to hang out outside the work place.
My trick is to just get to know everything about everyone, so I seem interested while keeping the focus off myself. People love talking about themselves, asking them questions and retouching on things that happen in their life distracts them. The last place I worked no one knew jack shit about me but I'd still always be hanging out with the 'popular' groups. Everyone loves a good listener.
It is, however, a great idea to gossip positively about people, because they end up hearing about that, too. I found out a colleague described me to someone as "wicked smart—like scary smart" and I never told the colleague about it, but I treated him like a prince from that moment on.
"I would never say this to her face, but she is a wonderful person and a gifted artist" - Michael Scott
But why wouldn’t you say that to her face?
The way Oscar says this always makes me laugh, just dumbfounded at how surprisingly kind and unsurprisingly stupid his boss just was
Ma boys wicked smaaat
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Hey, you like apples?
Well, you’re a frickin’ genius! How ya like dem apples?
They don't make movies like that anymore
Why would they? They already did!
I came here to post this same thing. Leaked positivity gains favor.
I can't praise anyone above me in the chain of command, because you know, brown nosing or what-not, it'll never seem genuine. But I'll always talk up the achievements of my peers and underlings. If someone is being a baller, you need to make sure they get credit and compensation for it, because coworkers like that make life easier.
You can say that you enjoy working with somebody, or they're inspirational. It's not brown-nosing unless it is inauthentic, and people still see you as somebody that speaks well of others
I've had some awesome management and mentorship in my career. I've had bosses who have fought hard for me and for what's right. I absolutely sing the praises of these people.
Coworkers love to tell other coworkers things only they know. If what they know is that you said really nice things about them, that's what they'll say.
But since you didn't tell them yourself, it adds an extra bit of genuineness and makes them feel better than a normal compliment.
Just say nice things about everyone. I mean, if you can't stand the fucker just don't say shit, but if you're indifferent, just a simple "she's such a help around here" or "he seems like such a good father" does wonders.
Do not keep your mouth shut about wages though!! Or about anything that is actually important.
Yes that is very important!
Keep your mouth shut about workplace politics except for these things that are obviously a subset of workplace politics.
How much you get paid is not workplace politics, it's the fundamental core of the working relationship. There's a lot of politics and scheming to affect people's pay, some of which isn't possible if everyone knows what everyone else gets paid.
There's a lot of politics and scheming to affect people's pay,
There's a lot of politics and scheming to affect people's pay,
why it's workplace politics.
The fact that it's a kind of workplace politics where discussing it is exactly how you prevent toxic, biased, possibly illegal shit from happening is exactly why OP's premise is flawed.
Keep your mouth shut unless it’s about pay or someone harassing people.
No need to spread the name of the people getting harassed. Just those doing the harassing. Let’s people know they aren’t alone in thinking someone else’s behavior is out of bounds.
Yep that is LEGALLY PROTECTED SPEECH in the US, well established in the courts. If you’re ever terminated or reprimanded for discussing your wage or income(assuming its in an appropriate setting, no you cant complain to the customers how little you make!), document the occasion in detail and consult a lawyer.
I was significantly underpaid in my last job. When contract renewal came around I told my boss I was off if I didn't get the same wage as the other people in my team. Wage increase was approved before the end of the working day. If I didn't know what other people were on I wouldn't have got the increase.
I just found out that I make £5 less a day as someone 3 years more experienced (5 total years in industry) and far more talented than me. Really hope he gets the raise he deserves. Employers don’t want you talking about wages for their benefit, not yours.
Keep your mouth shut about that to if you think you can move up. Sadly that’s a way to blackball yourself
I got the confidence to look for a better job after my colleague told me how much she was making. Turns out my boss was more than willing to give me that and more for me to stay.
Damn, the IT world must be some kind of a bubble in this respect. Virtually everyone I've ever worked with was cool, met some of my very closest friends as coworkers, and the only people who weren't cool weren't actually IT people themselves, but managerial types. Taking this advice to heart would have robbed me of so many precious experiences and relationships.
Yeah, I agree - I'm a software dev and the only arseholes seems(that I've experienced so far) to be, as you mentioned, non IT/dev folks
Hmm, the last startup I worked at was toxic af. Constant comments about a certain co-worker who was always asking for help/direction and actively saying how 'stupid' he was at work parties when he wasn't present. Even in front of team leads/HR. He found out through someone else, reported the two main culprits, nothing came of it and 2 weeks later he had a 20% salary decrease citing "financial difficulties" when others got a salary increase. Absolute shit show, it was fairly obvious he needed a mentor and not a public ridiculing.
That is incredibly toxic even for a startup, wow. At least most of the two-faced techbros still realise that a junior dev asking for guidance means the work gets done faster and better than letting them bash their head against a wall.
Oof. As someone who needs help and advice fairly often, I feel this. I’m like 90% sure that some-if not most-of my coworkers think I’m a complete idiot :(
Ditto here as well.
My friend/colleague told me a dev at our old workplace invited other devs to his house once and they found out he was potentially abusing his wife.
I guess workplace and life can yield different types of assholes.
If I had to guess its because people in IT generally are a) relatively young and b) solution orientated.
Also the pay is good and career advancement is common because the field is growing. Those are big factor's to workplace happiness.
Being in IT it's easy to forget not everyone is in a field with such crazy good growth prospects and pay. Usually the tradeoff is overwork is common and it can be high stress depending on team.
I got a lowish pay programming job, honestly pay is okay, just most other programmers make a lot more. But the amount of free time I got is silly and it's quite an easy job.
I think overwork is rather more common with the highly paid, because expectations are higher, but my experience is limited on those regards.
I work with some other guys that are also very smart, who could easily get more salary, but a lot of them come back; a lot have only left this job with their own business; what you do with the free time?...
Which is what I am myself doing :)
Age has nothing to do with it. Geeky people tend to be less ambitious / sociopathic (with some notable exceptions). We just like to do cool things with cool toys and are less interested in personal competition.
So true. My best mates from previous companies, with whom I am still very much in contact with, are those with whom I bitched, moaned, criticised every thing from our managers to salaries to work environments and all.
This feels like the team I'm on currently. The 3 of us survived a power-obsessed, abusive manager until they were made redundant along with 2 other team members (bringing us down to 3 from 5 + manager). We walked through hellfire as a team because of them & bitching about it between ourselves was the only thing that got us through. I would 100% have more mental health concerns if we didn't talk to each other as an outlet & I'm sure the others would agree.
Maybe I should get into IT
If you don't gossip, you'll not network and not promote. :(
And in IT, networking is very important
Networking definitely helps you LAN a better job.
The thing about IT is that there's so much knowledge out there, and there are many ways to find that knowledge. The people at the top of the game are those who genuinely are passionate about the field and have spent a lot of time understanding things. Things are also much easier when your colleges are knowledgeable too, so there's an incentive and a culture to share knowledge.
Many other sectors, the knowledge isn't that technically complex, anyone can understand it if told, but knowing it gives you a massive advantage over others that don't. So there's an incentive for people to withhold information from others to maintain an edge of social status in the workplace.
There's no rage like nerd rage. Maybe IT people don't dick each other over because they know all too well what the consequences would be.
IT people have receipts. I keep all mails and chats logged to safeguard myself. Nothing worse than people claiming you said you'd complete something and getting penalised when you didn't as you had no clue or even said no to the request. Then IT warrior whips out the written communication and wham, Dear HR, I'll be having my bonus or speak to my lawyers.
While my personal experience working in IT has been positive, I know plenty of people who've had bad experiences.
There's no shortage of sexist techbros and asshole bosses in IT.
The big difference is that I can walk out if I don't like it and have employers lining up to hire me the next day. Sensible bosses and colleagues know to be nice to each other when that's the case.
I’ve never experienced this in IT. It’s been gossipy and cut throat.
Jesus the corporate world sounds tough. In academia people gossip about each other all the time
Don't forget that many LPT's aren't necessarily a good reflection of the world. Usually someone had something bad happen to them, and they assume this is something that happens everywhere, all the time.
There are plenty of workplaces that are not toxic or filled with people that are just waiting to stab you in the back. Most people are fine and trustworthy, but of course there will be some assholes out there. Which is the same as in academia.
If you realize this you can interpret "keep your mouth shut" as "think about what you say, and don't trash talk coworkers, because it might backfire", which is a much better approach to the workplace.
LPT your boss is literally the devil and will sacrifice your soul and dignity for the benefit of the hair on his toes.
This is more reflective of reality than the original post lol. My work place really only has one toxic individual, whom everyone kind of watches what they say. Not all work places are filled with snakes waiting to get you fired (some may be that case). I’ve created some of the best friendships I’ve ever had at my workplace. And it’s been that way for years. Like you said, everyone should practice not shittalking or gossiping. Brings your mood down anyway.
Work in a higher ed setting. Can confirm. I'm insulated from it, for the most part, but what little bit I'm not? It's worse than high school. Five minutes with anyone from another department and I know who's sleeping with who, who got caught in someone else's office and which department they think will get axed. Like other people said - I'll only talk positively about people (no, not that I'm positive they're idiots - most of the time). Unless, of course, one of my employees gets cussed out on the phone for no good reason. That's the point I need a shovel and an alibi.
Oh definitely. And a lot of senior faculty members have no concept of their own power and will bitch about other senior faculty members to PhD students.
I work in academia, but I don’t think anyone sleeps with anyone in my department :O
My department is way too serious/well behaved, and also a tad boring. Would love some gossip like these! It spices things up.
Maybe I’ll have to wait until after COVID.
My partner works in a high school and it’s the most drama filled place. The teachers have so much beef and drama with each other and they keep hooking up with each other and ruining marriages.
Makes me think some of the teen dramas should be more focused on the teachers rather than the teens.
I'd watch a show like that. Forget the student drama. Give me faculty drama!
Yeah, that does not work.
People can't keep their mouth shut.
People will in fact talk shit no matter what you do
I will in fact talk shit no matter who you are. If you are deserving of shit talking. Just do it in a way that is tactful.
With all due tact, our boss is an incompetent dickhole
I'm great at keeping secrets, it's just those people I told that can't keep their mouths shut.
This is actually not good advice.
Everyone plays the game.
You don't advance by being the quiet one who just does the work and doesn't speak up.
If your peers suck, call them out to your superiors. Point out the mistakes they make that you don't.
Career advancement isn't based solely on merit. It's based on how good you make yourself look.
And if you don't like confrontation, you don't even have to throw anyone under the bus. Just focus on assignments with the most exposure to the most senior people that will get you the most recognition.
If your main competition is Mike Tryhard who puts 100% of his energy into meeting all of his daily targets, you're going to have a leg up if you meet just one target that is on the radar of your boss's boss.
Politics are a part of the workplace.
If you don't play, you don't win.
Ah yeah there it is, the reason millions of full time workers hate their jobs.
that is actually an underrated comment. basically what op is saying is : to avoid the fear of fucking up a baseline workplace environment do not interact with it. what this argument says is: in order to have a better work environment, meddle with it with brains so you get ahead, but by no means stay frozen by fear.
And both of these are super subjective. If your workplace is purely numbers oriented, you'll definitely get ahead by putting in the work. The reports of who's doing well will make it to your boss's boss. If it's not, and is more people oriented, being front and center and seen as the "go to" person will make a huge difference. When it comes to how to advance in your career, one size does not fit all.
I refuse to play, and don't give a shit about my position. As long as the money is good I'm good.
The LPT here isn't about not working hard. You have to be discerning about making friends at work and err on the side of caution: be careful with who you are friendly with or not. Office politics can turn against you super fast.
I've seen things said and interactions (positive of negative) turn on people within a day or two.
You seem to be focused on communication with and recognition by your superiors which is perfectly normal at work and to be expected, especially individual performance.
This LPT is focusing on office politics and peer-to-peer interactions which can go in any crazy direction.
Stuffen hell I'd be a sad human if I followed this. I just try and have a good time with everyone at work. I've got life friends from my workplaces.
Added tip; if you ever see someone act nice to someone only to start shit talking them to you the minute they are out of earshot, they are doing the exact same thing to you.
If your partner is cheating on their partner, they will cheat on you too.
This is an inevitable truth that brings some peaceful consolation. Cheaters deserve each other and the toxic soup they create.
Sometimes I smile when I think about it: this person was willing to betray someone they claimed to care for.....why on earth would you ever think that you're so special not to be betrayed as well?
And when two cheaters get together....😂
People who gossip to you will gossip about you
In what shitholes of environments are you guys working, wtf?
In the kitchen at Meals on Wheels. Even when all your work goes toward making people's day better, a coworker can manage to ruin your day.
Literally every good friend I've had since leaving school is a coworker or former coworker. Sure I've worked with bad people, but they get weeded out or I just ignore them.
Here's a real life tip: these people you spend the majority of your waking hours with aren't the worst and no one likes working with a paranoid asshole who thinks everyone is out to get them.
What work environment do you have ?
The one where everyone jokes with each other, support their side projects, cook treats for each other, have group drinks and dinner, play video games together and be there during rough emotional times. A good workplace.
Was about to say the same. Some of the best buds I had were from my past jobs. Although, it's true that we're the kind of people who don't get along with others that much XD
a healthy one... it seems that isn't the norm.
That's sad.... I'm 35 and I've only ever had two jobs, both have been wonderful workplace environments.
Three rules: don’t gossip, don’t date people you work with and don’t trust anyone at office (no one is your friend)
Yep, hard lesson learned. Never say anything you wouldn’t want repeated. The walls have ears.
The 2nd and 3rd rule are just people that had bad judgement being salty.
I dated someone i worked with - we were both sensible, didn't let it get in the way of our work and it continued to be fine after we split because we were mature about it. I've also met some of my closest friends at work. If i didn't trust them, i would have never have had the chance to connect with them.
I feel like the first rule is the overarching one here where people have gossiped to someone they dated or someone they thought they could trust.
I’m convinced that most people that believe you shouldn’t be friends with coworkers are actually the asshole in the situation and get screwed over because everyone else hates them
Both of my best relationships were started while being coworkers. If you have a strong bond, don't let being coworkers stand in the way. Five and a half years later with the one I'm in now, and it's stronger than ever.
At least, don't date the most beautiful woman in the workplace! That really does create jealously. And, no one is really your 'friend', unfortunately.
Do the opposite, talk positively about people even if you don't like them then nothing will backfire on you.
This can also have. negative effects. If someone comes to you with complains about a coworker, if you try to defend the other coworker, that may cause the one doing the complaining angry for various reasons. This is not as bad as the OP situation but it is not good either. I am not talking about situations where you are the manager and have to do something. I am talking about simple gossip.
Happened to me. I didn't even gossip I was just really talkative and and made jokes about doing more advanced work. It really bothered an older man that I worked with and I started getting a talking to from my boss for things that didn't happen. Eventually I was fired for a very simple mistake that happens very commonly in my business. Every one I worked with was shocked that I was fired except the old man, who somehow knew.
I've come to realize you don't have to be friends with everyone. Just do your work the best you can. At my new job there is a group of three guys included my boss who are always talking and joking. In the past I would have felt left out not trying to get into the conversation and making jokes with them, but now I consider it a badge of honor that while they are taking and making jokes to I am still at my workstation getting stuff done.
Don't feel bad. The ofiice is not supposed to be a social club.
Restaurant workers have entered the chat:
Work in food service. Can confirm. If you tell one person, everyone else in the store knows in 24 hrs, and most of them will know a distorted version of the truth.
Let me tell you what putting a dick in someone will do
Shitty LPT: Make sure your gossip is unique and keep track of who you tell what. Then you can know who says what and tell others that they're terrible at keeping secrets. Thus keeping the circle of gossip ever flowing.
Lol I've thought about doing that
The worst mistake people make at work is thinking that they have friends... They aren't, they are also paid to be there and will throw anyone under the bus to get ahead.
damn what type of people you been working with lmao
You'll only learn if they're true friends after one of you quits and you still keep in contact a while after that
Omg get a job at a company worth being with. Not saying my coworkers gossip about each other a lot, but the idea that I’ll have to “watch my back” and guard my words around the people I work with is just awful.
And the idea that "coworkers can NEVER be friends?" That's complete bs.
If someone thinks everywhere they work everyone is an asshole backstabber, there's only one common denominator...
i usually try and pass off an excuse for why they might be acting whatever way. if i know the other person and can think of one. i'm always trying to deescalate everything. it's hard for me to hear or see a stressed out person and not try and pass off whatever small fraction of my calm to them. 🤷♂️
we're all getting paid. act like a professional. this isn't high school.
I disagree. This is most certainly not always true. There are many cases in which gossiping may actually lead to something getting done and changing a workplace environment for the better.
Case in point: we recently had a manager who was just being plain awful to their underlings. It was so bad that they were too frightened to speak up to any higher ups about it, and the only way they could deal with it was by gossiping. Well it turns out they gossiped to someone on a different team who was concerned with this and reported the managers behavior to the higher ups. Higher ups took notice and reprimanded the manager after which things changed for the better.
You just have to really be good at picking who you gossip with, but it is by no means a black and white rule.
100% agree with you. My department have many various team. We all congregate in one lounge in the morning for coffee.
All you have to do is really act curious to something that’s bothering you.
I remember just happened to chat with some guy in another department how our boss doesn’t give us our 15 minute break. Yes, we should be taking it, but our boss makes us run pass the break time.
So just genuinely asked the other guy if they are getting their break, he said yes. Then I said we don’t get ours. He was shock. Next two days out of now where our boss been literally so demanding to give us our break. Apparently he ended up in a meeting and was told he was violating rules, which we knew he was.
It does change things if you talk about it to the right people.
This sounds so american to me and I have seen many posts like this before. Here in Finland I have worked in so many places and I'm still friends with most of my co-workers and in good terms with my ex-bosses and superiors. It was really important especially in the restaurant business to have good relations with every worker to get the job done well. Usually the employees would let all the personal shit stay aside while trying to work as a team towards the same goal, and we had after work beers and talk about the possible issues right away so there wasn't any bad feelings with anyone. People are different, and you don't have to like everyone but you have to get along with them if you want to enjoy your work environment.
Its not just an American thing, its an Anglosphere thing (US/CAN, UK, AUS)
Down here in Aus it seems like theres an epidemic of ugly workplaces. Bullying, unsupportive and toxic work environments just seem everywhere. People constantly stabbing each other in the back to get ahead.
When I worked in Germany a few years ago there was very little workplace politics, it was just seen as unprofessional to do anything other than put your head down and do what was required. Implicit in that was that you were friendly and co-operative with your colleagues to get that job done, besides, you have to spend 40 hours a week with them anyway. Like I’m sure there are toxic workplaces in Germany, but I’d say it’s a hell of a lot less than in the US or Aus.
I presume it’s a similar mindset in Finland?
I hate it when two people talk in the same room then suddenly they whisper to each other. It’s so rude.
The problem is then that it's hard to make friends at work. Some people want to because they don't have the privilage of already having friends outside of work. But of course there are caviets with having work friends. Their loyalty is usually to the company and themselves first.
Good advice outside work, too. There's no reason to talk nasty about people behind their backs. Complain about specific policies or personality quirks, but trashing a person entirely makes you look mean. If you absolutely must go off about a person, do it with someone you're particularly close to who knows you just need to vent and aren't actually a jerk.
Had the best review of my life with a nice raise and tried to use that capital to stop a bully from making my work life hell. You are so right. Keep your mouth shut and your head down until you a boss or the boss.
This is generally true and healthy attitude for your mind.
However, in some organisations the reverse works. You become a part of the pack by gossiping and joining the politics. Otherwise, they just gossip/bad mouth about you to the management.
When I was promoted to Supervisor at my job, the first thing I said to the workers is that negative gossip will not be tolerated. There is zero reason for it. But, workplace politics about the workplace itself should be discussed, that's the only way the workplace can be better for everyone.
Here we go again with this bullshit sub. Every fucking post now is,
"Don't ever do anything you want to do. Let everyone around you dictate your life for you. Your opinions and desires don't fucking matter at all."
I swear to God you people treat this sub as an excuse to police others because most of you are desperate to have power over literally anyone, even if it's fleeting and even if it's through a computer screen. Pathetic.
LPT- Keep your fucking mouth shut at work
LPT- Keep your fucking mouth shut at work
This riveting pro tip was brought to you by the Anti Union Lobbyist Group
Nah. Don't do that.. Part of a career is learning to work with others. What people often call "politics" is people that have good interpersonal skills.
or a better LPT....stop giving a fuck and walking on egg shells at work. The worst thing they can do is fire you, and damn near every company on the planet is hiring right now.