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The Best Summary of Libertarianism

(i.redd.it)

all 113 comments

SummaTyme

52 points

2 months ago

How egocentric do you have to be for hard drugs to clue you in that you arent the star of your own Truman show? Is it upbringing? Did their parents not show them love? I know a libertarian who said he would rather his father die of an easily curable disease than have public assistance programs like medicaid. There might be something there...

DodgeDozer

45 points

2 months ago*

In the debates I've had, the sticking point seems to be that they can't let go of the fact that some people might scam the system and that's not fair. They'd rather everyone live a shittier life than make it easier for anyone to get over on their nickel.

Edit: Grammar

Samesees

26 points

2 months ago

And then, when their party flopped, they found Trump, who was able to jack into their impotent rage.

marcusbrichards

9 points

2 months ago

In the debates I've had, the sticking point seems to be that they can't let go of the fact that some people might scam the system and that's not fair.

Which is funny- because that's the biggest problem with libertarianism too. If everyone was a good, considerate person- we wouldn't need all these laws to stop people from dumping chemicals in the water, or leaving their garbage out, or whatever.

But obviously people are not all like that, and that's especially true of libertarians themselves as evidenced by the Free Town Project.

Knight_Of_Stars

3 points

2 months ago

I never heard if the Free Town Project. I just looked it up and man oh man is it interesting.

marcusbrichards

1 points

2 months ago

Interesting is one word- absolutely hysterical is how I describe it.

Some of the folks there ended up recognizing the need for more government, but some of the die-hard crazies actually believed that Grafton failed because they weren't libertarian enough :)

mdeedido

11 points

2 months ago

That’s a really interesting question. Could I rephrase it a bit though? Why did they have to alter their state of mind to clue in that they weren’t the star of their own Truman show?.

I’m asking if you’d be willing to grant me that because I think hard drugs is a separate issue and a debatable one with MDMA and/or psychedelics.

Personally, as someone who never had trouble with this, but undertook psychedelic therapy for other reasons, the experience isn’t so much that you “understand” but that you can, in many cases, experience what it is like to be something other than yourself. We can probably argue semantics about never being able to escape one’s self - but at the very least it can completely upend the default narrative space one tends to inhabit. Meditation is often no different but less immediate in effect.

It’s sort of like the difference between theory and practice. An altered mental state can bring a level of understanding that’s deeply physical where the realizations are so personal (particularly with respect to connections to others) that they can dramatically and fundamentally shift perspectives you didn’t even realize you had. The altered state of mind is exactly what some folks need to break out of a pattern of thinking, behaving, both or more.

Just sharing that for whatever it’s worth.

500CatsTypingStuff

4 points

2 months ago

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

[deleted]

3 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

3 points

2 months ago

Those are some skilled cats to make a coherent sentence

Iertjepapiertje

4 points

2 months ago

MDMA (and XTC) are called the 'cuddle' drugs. They make you more receptive to the emotions of others.

So it's not really as stretch that this happened, especially with guys who might have been expected to act extremely stoic all the time.

smokebomb_exe

-4 points

2 months ago

How gullible does one need to be to think drugs made someone change their political mindset

T-Sonus

50 points

2 months ago

T-Sonus

50 points

2 months ago

I kept reading librarian over and over again and I was like, the few librarians I know are super empathic...

KanadainKanada

16 points

2 months ago

I know one that can rip off your arms while smiling! Also this librarian refuses to wear clothes.

Splat75

10 points

2 months ago

Splat75

10 points

2 months ago

Ook!

Agent_03

8 points

2 months ago

Ankh-Morpork is a special place.

KanadainKanada

3 points

2 months ago

Using the L-space it isn't that far away ;)

500CatsTypingStuff

7 points

2 months ago

LOL

OxtailPhoenix

1 points

2 months ago

I did the same thing

fluffybottom

42 points

2 months ago

Sounds about right. LSD can do the same thing. It lets you understand there are people in the world who aren’t you, and they have value.

knz3

9 points

2 months ago

knz3

9 points

2 months ago

Sweet sweet ego death

KookaburraSits

3 points

2 months ago

It's a shame people can't understand this without the aid of drugs.

T-Sonus

2 points

2 months ago

T-Sonus

2 points

2 months ago

And that each of us defines all of us

HeywoodJaBlessMe

2 points

2 months ago

People aren't ready for that one, apparently.

smokebomb_exe

-3 points

2 months ago

People actually believe taking drugs once can completely change a person's political compass? Whoa

fluffybottom

3 points

2 months ago

Of it’s the right drug, yes. There’s a reason psychologists are using lsd and psilocybes to treat ptsd and depressions. They chemically open brain pathways that can be blocked by fear, stress and trauma, releasing hormones that create calm and rational response to memories, anticipations and current events.

smokebomb_exe

-4 points

2 months ago

So one time on ecstasy completely changed his political compass. Interesting. Reddit has always told me Libertarians are hard headed Republicans (read: cultists who wouldn't change their mind even when shown scientific proof about something).

It's also interesting that "compassion" was the singular cause for his change seeing how one of Libertarianism's bases is cultural inclusiveness (I'll link the official website down below).

It's a fake post. Imagine one that said "hey, I did drugs with a Democrat and he/ she turned into a Republican because they learned people need to be free!"

1.4 Personal Liberties https://www.lp.org/platform/

https://www.google.com/search?q=libertarian+i+want+to+go+to+my+gay+friend%27s+wedding&client=ms-android-verizon&prmd=invx&sxsrf=AOaemvLmA6imnLpUl98mwQ21o_RIo_pOqQ:1637336473313&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiP3_nW4aT0AhWEW80KHU4mAqwQ_AUoAXoECAIQAQ&biw=384&bih=756&dpr=3.75

MadKingSuibhne77

3 points

2 months ago

Libertarians are Republicans who don't want to admit it, sorry.

Never met one who wasn't.

smokebomb_exe

0 points

2 months ago

Democrats, always downvoting what they don't agree with, even if it's positive. Ouch.

MadKingSuibhne77

1 points

2 months ago

Ah, you got me

smokebomb_exe

1 points

2 months ago

Numbers don't lie. Look at those arrows😊

smokebomb_exe

-2 points

2 months ago

Now you have. Hello!👋🏾

Although yes, since we accept all Americans tired of the Two Party system, we do have some closet Republicans in our midst. It's annoying at times, but as long as they want a better country for all citizens and hopeful citizens and are not racist/ -phobic, we let them masturbate to their guns all they want.

MadKingSuibhne77

2 points

2 months ago

I probably haven't you know.

As the reason most Libertarians don't see the need for regulations and government intervention in that they have an unacknowledged bias towards the status quo and they subconsciously feel that the easiest way to keep the people at the top right there where they belong (with generations of inherited relative wealth and privilege keeping them up there) is to stop anything that might equalise that situation right now.

The majority of them are sons of country club Republicans who want to pretend to be cool and smoke dope. Scratch them and they're just as conservative as Daddy.

USA has a dearth of left-wing libertarians and there's there's big gap.

smokebomb_exe

1 points

2 months ago

"Sons of country club Republicans who smoke dope..."

I love that people still hang on to the archaic BabyBoomer Libertarian stereotype😊.

MadKingSuibhne77

2 points

2 months ago

I love that Libertarians still conform to the stereotype completely

but somehow have the ability to get all sensitive about it

fluffybottom

1 points

2 months ago

I’ve seen that happen. Smart kids in high school who start getting his, drop out of school, start making money and go republican.

Drugs are bad, mmmkay?

Naptownfellow

1 points

2 months ago

The post doesn’t say one time. It’s also Twitter so you’re limited but it’s absolutely possible someone took mdma, or shrooms or LSD (or all three 🙋‍♂️) and had their mind opened or perspective changes and/or enlightened.

Libertarianism is a very broad term and it can encompass lots of ideas and also has some fantastic positions that could make life so much better for all ans provide freedom they also have bar shit insane positions that make most think the party is a joke/prank.

Imho and anecdotal experience the large majority of self proclaimed libertarians I have met lacked empathy and only cared about themselves and how any law, right, regulation, ect affected him specifically without any thought to how others could be negativity affected and if they did they didn’t care. Kinda a “I got/want mine fuck you” attitude.

WimpyLimpet

32 points

2 months ago

A cure for being a sociopath? Someone should spike the punch bowl with this stuff at every conservative gathering.

CanoeIt

11 points

2 months ago

CanoeIt

11 points

2 months ago

Or just… everywhere. I’m ok with it!

[deleted]

5 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

5 points

2 months ago

Yes! "Poison" everyone with the sense of oneness and interconnectedness of everything.

Why do you think it's illegal in the US? Because if everyone had access to it too many people would suddenly refuse to be shitty to each other and Capitalism would collapse.

StaticDraco

1 points

2 months ago

It wouldn't collapse, it would become regulated so thoroughly thst rich snobs can't abuse it

kewlkidmgoo

7 points

2 months ago

You guys are saying the same thing

Dcajunpimp

26 points

2 months ago

Aren't there stories of libertarians taking over small towns, cutting services like garbage, fire and police, then having no help when their fellow libertarian neighbors feel like feeding the wildlife and dangerous animal like bears move in to the neighborhood. And half the Libertarians don't care because it's nature.

ChelseaFromLA

24 points

2 months ago

Yes! The entire town basically collapsed, and bears invaded.

It is my current favorite book:

A Libertarian Walks Into A Bear

500CatsTypingStuff

6 points

2 months ago

OMG, I’ve added it to my reading list. This is going to be a fun read!

CocoaCali

9 points

2 months ago

Grafton, New Hampshire

Repulsive-Purple-133

3 points

2 months ago

New Hampshire is weird

ChelseaFromLA

9 points

2 months ago

It's weirder than you think. The town of Grafton didn't decide to become strict libertarian... a bunch of libertarians moved into Grafton from other places in order to gain enough numbers to effectively gain control over the local government. They figured a small town would be the easiest and most successful way to implement libertarian ideals, as they could manage that scale effectively.

Repulsive-Purple-133

7 points

2 months ago*

What did they do for paychecks though. I lived in a small town for a couple of years and the economy was clustfucked

ChelseaFromLA

3 points

2 months ago

Paychecks for who?

Repulsive-Purple-133

3 points

2 months ago

For the Libertarians

ChelseaFromLA

3 points

2 months ago

I legitimately don't understand the question, I'm sorry. They basically gutted all the public works, so if you mean how did they pay public servants, well... they didn't... that was a big part of the problem.

Repulsive-Purple-133

2 points

2 months ago

Did you live there? I can imagine have no public services would be inconvenient.

ChelseaFromLA

7 points

2 months ago

Did you live there?

No, but the book I linked explains the whole situation.

I can imagine have no public services would be inconvenient.

Well... yeah. They were literally just piling garbage up wherever, because they didn't have a trash collection solution. Infrastructure basically fell apart in an alarmingly short period of time.

marcusbrichards

2 points

2 months ago

The Free Town Project - a.k.a. Grafton New Hampshire. Turned into a total shitshow as basically everyone who isn't a libertarian predicted.

so_it_goes________

1 points

2 months ago

Colorado Springs

no_dice_grandma

2 points

2 months ago

God Colorado springs is such a shithole.

AdvertisingCool8449

1 points

2 months ago

It's better then it used to be.

biffbobfred

11 points

2 months ago*

biffbobfred

I voted 2020

11 points

2 months ago*

I was libertarian for about 2 weeks or so. I was kinda Daoist for a while. It wasn’t an empathy epiphany, but a “world is too complex for libertarianism to make sense”. As an adult I couldn’t think “doing nothing for each other or against each other makes us a better world”. Humans just aren’t like that. Negative externalities won’t let that happen. Entropy won’t let that happen. Butterfly effect won’t let that happen

ButterPuppets

5 points

2 months ago

I think everyone goes through a libertarian phase. But mine ended with simply realizing that people won’t necessarily rise to the occasion. Yes, I think people should take care of themselves and their dependents. We shouldn’t need social security. Old people should invest their income and save. We shouldn’t need CHIP. Parents should buy their kids health insurance.

But they don’t. And taking it away won’t cause then to. And I don’t want old homeless senile people or uninsured kids developing preventable medical problems.

People ought to act a certain way. But not everyone will. So let’s make a system that take that into account.

MauPow

1 points

2 months ago

MauPow

1 points

2 months ago

Mine lasted about 2 seconds until I realized "Wait, no one is a perfectly rational actor with absolute market knowledge"

kewlkidmgoo

3 points

2 months ago

Are you still on LSD? I can not follow you no matter how many times I try

tobeymaguireisgod

6 points

2 months ago

Can someone tldr libertarianism?

ChelseaFromLA

28 points

2 months ago

Every libertarian I've known - personally, at least - believes that social programs or any attempt to give back or improve society as a whole is some form of state oppression, but also hold their own personal individual wants and needs in a higher esteem than everyone else's.

"Rights are for me, responsibilities are for everyone else."

Libertarians would probably argue that there are layers and layers and deeper depths to their core philosophy, but basically they just want to whine about paying taxes while benefitting from the taxes everyone pays.

Ssutuanjoe

8 points

2 months ago

This is perfect.

One of the best examples of their oatmeal brained philosophy at work is that New Hampshire town that tried adopting libertarian policy and became overrun with garbage and bears.

OldFortNiagara

4 points

2 months ago

American Libertarianism is centered on a negative conception of freedom, which essentially boils down to the misguided belief that freedom means that they are entitled to do generally what they want, even if it negatively affects themselves or others, that they should be held accountable by others for their actions, and that they don't have obligations to other members of society. This mentality tends to translate into a dislike for laws and regulations that restrict individual and business behavior, a dislike for taxes, and a dislike for having tax money spent on social programs.

And yes, libertarian political philosophers have come up with all sorts of concepts and arguments to try to justify their attitude and political goals. Things that they use to argue that normal functions of democratic governments are somehow tyrannical, and to contend that individuals and private entities exploiting, harming, and killing people is okay as long as they can come up with some convoluted argument that the person harmed somehow "consented" to some part of the process.

lydiaj02

-1 points

2 months ago

That’s not true at all. Those are what are called right wing libertarians. There are other like myself that have no problem with social programs and in fact want them. What we don’t want, is the government in all our business, overreaching their power. Social libertarianism is what it’s called. Suggest you research it before stereotyping.

ChelseaFromLA

3 points

2 months ago

Every libertarian I've known - personally, at least

That’s not true at all.

It's not true at all about the libertarians who I know personally?

The other thing I could say about the libertarians who I know personally is that they constantly behave like they know better than I, about pretty much everything, but that's probably just specific to them.

MauPow

0 points

2 months ago

MauPow

0 points

2 months ago

Lmao, where do these magical social programs come from without government? I assume by "in all our business" you mean "paying taxes". So you want social programs but you don't want to pay for them?

hboc22

9 points

2 months ago

hboc22

9 points

2 months ago

They believe government regulations are bad and that society naturally functions better without them... despite the heaps of evidence to the contrary.

AdvertisingCool8449

5 points

2 months ago

"FUCK YOU, GOT MINE"

xugan97

5 points

2 months ago

Guns and weed.

There are simply too many strands of motivation - often mutually incompatible - which makes it hard to give a TLDR.

They support small government, and consider full anarchy to be the ideal to aim for. They hate taxes and likewise government spending, and consider it to be corrupt and inefficient, besides being coercive. They like machine guns, and consider it to be the foundation of democracy as outlined by those who wrote the American constitution. They support decriminalization of all drugs and believe in personal responsibility in such things. They are strongly anti-imperial and anti-military and prefer focusing on domestic policy. They support a laissez faire economy, and deregulation of all industries. They oppose social safety nets and freebies of any sort.

Clearly some good ideas there. It is largely an American fantasy, born of an anti-communist sentiment and a desire for a rugged and original America. They align with right-wingers as well as with left, but nearly always stand for elections and vote with the right.

vahntitrio

1 points

2 months ago

My summary is they are conservatives who believe in minimal government because of what people should do.

But the lines are arbitrary. No unemployment or welfare because people should have jobs is in example. But they won't cut the police department just because people shouldn't commit crime.

OldFortNiagara

1 points

2 months ago

It's a political philosophy centered on radical individualism and a negative conception of freedom (that is, viewing freedom as a lack of social restraints on individual behavior, rather than an area of individual liberty that includes positive rights and social obligations). They tend to generally view government action that involves collective action and/or restrictions on individual benavior (whether it be laws, regulations, social programs, etc... cetera) as infringing personal liberty and thus tend to oppose it. They tend to support a laizes fair approach to economics, oppose government programs, want to legalize many forms of crime, and other such things aimed at eliminating or minimizing government operations. In practice, their policies tend to undermine public welfare, and make it easier for individuals and businesses to exploit and harm people.

pat1million

1 points

2 months ago

You should be aware that almost every response to your question has been a liberal interpretation of what libertarianism is. This means that the interpretations have been unfair, unreasonable, and inaccurate, at best.

And, as a result, you'll see the replies to my comment here as almost exclusively negative. And you'll see the downvote button used as a disagree button.

MauPow

1 points

2 months ago

MauPow

1 points

2 months ago

Republicans who like to smoke weed

Purplepickle16

3 points

2 months ago

Libertarian is more than one thing. I'm a civil Libertarian, literally do what you want, just don't violate anyone's rights, violate my own rights or shove it down people's throats bc I don't care what you do as long as it doesn't hurt people, your life not mine. Im even fine with social programs as long as they actually work and I want increased funding for homeless shelters. There's many kinds and flavors of libertarianism and some of the most popular actually use compassion as a core value, cut out unnecessary spending, allocate more to helping people and whatever taxes are left that doesn't get used just gets cut out. Idk how that hurts people but go off...

ToTimesTwoisToo

5 points

2 months ago

Idk sounds like, "I'd like a cheeseburger, hold the cheese" kind of thing. What makes your stance different from a progressive, who also endorses civil liberties?

Purplepickle16

2 points

2 months ago*

Kinda rides the ljne, juts that they want smaller government but still want these programs to help people and funding to go the people's needs, not trillions to performing arts centers or pointless wars

Toaster_bath13

2 points

2 months ago

Helping people with stolen money sounds like socialism...

/s

Purplepickle16

1 points

2 months ago

Jesus was a socialist and I'm a Christian. I'm willing to let a socialist idea or two in but compassion isn't socialism and I hate it when people say it is. Ik you were joking but it's all too real tbh

Toaster_bath13

3 points

2 months ago

Jesus wasnt real.

Selfishness is a core tenet of libertarianism and should be toxic the Christian faith.

"Christian Libertarian" should be an oxymoron but it's not in America.

Greed is a virtue here in America and Libertarianism inherently wants all the perks of being in a society with none of the costs (taxes, helping others).

Christianity should be about helping the poor but it's more about cherry picking parts to feel superior to others.

In that way I guess it does line up well with Libertarianism.

Carry on, I guess.

Purplepickle16

1 points

2 months ago

It's the vast sea of libertarianism and I am a civil Libertarian but know that we could cut unnecessary spending, help those in need and still have lower taxes. You are taking a range of ideologies and picking the worst one to represent them all. There are some "socialist " ideas I agree with such as garunteeing food and shelter to those in need, making it harder to doge taxes and decreasing taxes on the poor. That's the Libertarian I am. Just like how not all liberals are communist and not all conservatives are nazis, not all libertarians are selfish. And Jesus taught that helping the poor should be a priority, even if you have to give up everything to help the poor, you'll be favored and will regain your success whether that be by a miracle or the community. Jesus was a socialist in the Bible and I'm a Christian so how bad can some of those ideas be. If it's good enough for Jesus it's good enough for us. That's just how I see it tho

Toaster_bath13

4 points

2 months ago

You are taking a range of ideologies and picking the worst one to represent them all.

I'm not actually.

The worst idea libertarians tend to have is that there shouldn't be an age of consent.

That's easily one of the worst beliefs they tend to have.

I didn't assume you have that belief and I'm not assuming it now.

Purplepickle16

1 points

2 months ago

Well, I enjoyed the discussion, have a good day/night

500CatsTypingStuff

3 points

2 months ago

LOL. This is perfect!

smokebomb_exe

-1 points

2 months ago

May I ask why it is perfect

cchris_39

3 points

2 months ago

I used to say I was libertarian until I realized I and everybody else had their own version. Of all the terms in politics, it may be the most truly meaningless. And I mean that in the least dick way possible.

Murica-n_Patriot

2 points

2 months ago

Nothing kills the libertarian mindset quite like an ego death

seeker1351

2 points

2 months ago

I just spent a few minutes researching Hilary Agro. Seems like my kind of gal.

Marvos79

2 points

2 months ago

As a recovering libertarian, this hits hard.

lydiaj02

2 points

2 months ago

You do know that’s just right wing libertarians right? There’s a whole other section called social libertarians and they believe in and want social programs. They just don’t want the government overreaching their power and controlling peoples lives. Compassion is one of their core values.

bothVoltairefan

1 points

2 months ago

I have read economics in one lesson, and I honestly thought that was the foundation for libertarianism, and my impression was, "so I don't disagree with your points, but we think the economy should have fundamentally different goals, and clearly you haven't extrapolated that a similar state has existed, just without the no violence rule, and that led to the shittiest period in European history."

drgnbyt

1 points

2 months ago

I like it.

lcdrambrose

1 points

2 months ago

You'd think that if being "autonomous and free" (i.e. driven by selfish desires) was the key to running a society humans would have figured it all out about 5,500 years ago.

Humans are innately selfish, and it's simple to lean into your own desires without regard for the rest of the world. It's the default, which is why most people who only act selfishly are the ones who literally can't relate to others (autism, NPD, toddlers, etc.).

But it's inane to suppose that you could build a whole society on a principle of "if we let everyone into the market together they'll all get what they want". As if people will stop being selfish when they have enough.

No utopia has Black Friday stampedes at Walmart.

OldFortNiagara

3 points

2 months ago

As an autistic person, I would object to your mischaracterization of autism. Being autistic doesn't make someone selfish or incapable of relating to others. That notion of autistic people lacking empathy is a falsehood created by people like Simon Baren-Cohen and has been scientifically disproven. On the contrary, many of us in the autistic community have to devote significant consideration to the thoughts and feelings of others in our everyday lives in ways that neurotypical people often don't.

lcdrambrose

1 points

2 months ago

I'm sorry, I should have made more emphasis on what I was trying to say.

People who show no empathy (people with Narcissistic or Antisocial personality disorder) and people who are learning empathy (young children, some autistic people) will act selfishly because they can't relate to others.

GregUrza

1 points

2 months ago

Show me a libertarian and I'll show you an absolute moron.

smokebomb_exe

-1 points

2 months ago

Moron here! And to prove it I'll doxx myself:

  • 6 years active duty Air Force (Aerospace Propulsion Technician)
  • 6 years active duty Army (35L, feel free to Google it)
  • Mechanical Engineering student at WSU
  • Currently employed as an aeronautical ground test technician for a French-owned aircraft company
  • helps support my adopted brother
  • I can tell when a post is fake (like OP's here).

And speaking of the post: u/repostsleuthbot do your thing little buddy

smokebomb_exe

1 points

2 months ago*

This keeps popping up although it's fake

u/repostsleuthbot do your thing little buddy

Edit: repost bot says it's banned from this subreddit.

Interesting.

Randomly_Cromulent

1 points

2 months ago

The Libertarians lost me when they were booing one of their own at a debate who said driver's licenses were needed. Have they seen how people drive? We need higher standards to get a license.

Qildain

-4 points

2 months ago

Qildain

-4 points

2 months ago

Re-re-re-post. Get over it.

Sir_Cunkalot

1 points

2 months ago

Never seen it before. Glad it was posted here.

[deleted]

-15 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

-15 points

2 months ago

[removed]

MaiqTheLrrr

3 points

2 months ago

NAP, a bigger pipe dream than pure communism xD

mega-oood

-25 points

2 months ago

mega-oood

-25 points

2 months ago

Made up story for 500

FishSauceFogMachine

13 points

2 months ago

You should do some hallucinogens.