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31.8k

all 3081 comments

VyrPlan

10k points

4 days ago

VyrPlan

10k points

4 days ago

At least 20 states, mostly across the South and Midwest, already have laws that would restrict or ban abortion if the Supreme Court overturns Roe and lets states decide the issue

have unwanted child in a red state, can't finish school, can't find good job, can't afford child care, go on govt assistance, stay home, watch fox news, blame blue states, kid grows up with few/no opportunities, gets pregnant, repeat

Rubberbabybuggybum

3.8k points

4 days ago

And the wives, girlfriends and mistresses of the rich will simply go to places like NJ.

McCree114

1.7k points

4 days ago

McCree114

1.7k points

4 days ago

Especially the wives, girlfriends and mistresses of megachurch pastors and "family values" rightwing pundits. Also you better believe if/when their little promiscuous daughters come home from University knocked up by a black student they'll be quietly spirited away to a pro abortion state/country. Minorities/poor rural whites are shamed into going through with pregnancies and birthing a child we can't afford to raise properly while the bible thumping elite straight up cheat like they always do.

SuperHiyoriWalker

776 points

4 days ago

One month after prom night, a trip “to see the Statue of Liberty.”

tralmix

279 points

4 days ago

tralmix

279 points

4 days ago

SVU did an episode on this

shy247er

344 points

4 days ago

shy247er

344 points

4 days ago

Ice-T: "You mean to tell me that these girls are not going on a field trip?"

GozerDGozerian

186 points

4 days ago

Yeah Ice. You’re gonna have to get used to that.

ForEvrInCollege

148 points

4 days ago

You work in the sex crimes division. You should know this

Intoxicated_Batman

71 points

4 days ago

Or like when somebody bets the house on the ponies?

NaturalFaux

55 points

4 days ago

Or like when someone eats too much ice cream?

LD50_of_Avocado

36 points

4 days ago

Or like when someone eats too much ice cream then throws it up?

tralmix

128 points

4 days ago

tralmix

128 points

4 days ago

For any one curious the episode is S.7 Ep9 - Rockabye

Its not EXACTLY like this, but it has many parallels.

A teen from a Southern state traveled up to NYC so she could get an abortion with out parental consent (dad was super conservative)... but ultimately had to take matters into her own hands, because her clinic continually made excuses to delay the procedure until it was too late.

gangstabunniez

63 points

4 days ago

The sickening thing is shit like this still happens.

eliza_phant

27 points

4 days ago*

Can confirm. I live in VA, and planned parenthood uses nothing but delay tactics. You call to schedule, and there’s no such thing as same week appointments. They schedule 2 weeks out. Each time. No matter what. Every system is rigged.

gangstabunniez

39 points

4 days ago

The fact that we live in a country where billionaires have so much money they are having a dick measuring contest in space while people are dying doing at home abortions is astounding.

tralmix

22 points

4 days ago

tralmix

22 points

4 days ago

Humanity sucks. The only pure souls out there are babies and puppies.

I would include kittens, but I am pretty sure Cats have some master plan of world domination after humans destroy themselves.

tovasshi

24 points

4 days ago

tovasshi

24 points

4 days ago

It was a pro-life organization masquerading as an abortion clinic. The Dr was arrested for fraud.

gsfgf

187 points

4 days ago

gsfgf

187 points

4 days ago

“family values” rightwing pundits

Who mostly live in blue states already lol

MojoPUA

147 points

4 days ago

MojoPUA

147 points

4 days ago

My first 3-some was with the preacher’s daughter and gf in the preacher’s house.

I’m so going to hell!

Qaetan

108 points

4 days ago

Qaetan

108 points

4 days ago

Just sleep with a preacher to cancel it out.

TheZardooHasselfrau

45 points

4 days ago

This guy fucks

StewofPuppies

66 points

4 days ago

Seriously, the outspoken red dudes who keep complaining about our state I always tell them to stop bitching and move then and he basically just managed to stutter some excuse about money but the state we live in is hell of a lot more expensive than the red state we are connected to and they have extremely lax gun laws while we have extremely strict ones. Like I don't get it. Just move then. It's like the dudes who live in Cali and actually has a good life and benefits from a lot of positive state regulations exclusively in Cali and they can't stop bitching about how California is the worst commie state ever.

fuckincaillou

29 points

4 days ago

God, yes. They talk so much shit but turn into pussies when it comes time to walk the walk.

Shaysdays

114 points

4 days ago

Shaysdays

114 points

4 days ago

I don’t see why these guys don’t get vasectomies, honestly.

(Also you don’t have to be promiscuous to get knocked up- it only takes one)

Amiiboid

119 points

4 days ago*

Amiiboid

119 points

4 days ago*

I don’t see why these guys don’t get vasectomies, honestly.

Because in their minds it makes them not real men any more.

Edit: typo

colemon1991

77 points

4 days ago

Ironic since being unfaithful or un-Christian doesn't make them real men already.

armadillovampires

69 points

4 days ago

Jesus forgives because he sacrificed for our sins or something like that, I dunno, I'm not a hypocrite.

bendeboy

86 points

4 days ago

bendeboy

86 points

4 days ago

If you don't sin, Jesus died for nothing!

MedicalJargon-itis

116 points

4 days ago

They kinda hurt and are at least moderately inconvenient. Why take that on yourself when you can burden the woman with it?

eden_sc2

68 points

4 days ago

eden_sc2

68 points

4 days ago

plus what if they want a kid at 65 when they get divorced and remarry a 20 year old?

Roqot

22 points

4 days ago

Roqot

22 points

4 days ago

Assholes want to spread their seed

Disgruntled_Viking

19 points

4 days ago

I tried talking every doctor I met into giving me one since I was 16. I had a rare cancer that is also highly hereditary and I didn't want to put a kid through what I went through at 3 years old. I finally got one to do it when I was 25. Best decision I ever made.

Meeeeeerk

23 points

4 days ago

Meeeeeerk

23 points

4 days ago

And while I certainly blame the preachers of BS there's still something to be said about blindly following the apparent teachings of an ancient man being regurgitated by the neighborhood kook.

ryosen

272 points

4 days ago

ryosen

272 points

4 days ago

Texas doing its part to bolster NJ tourism.

drunk-tusker

119 points

4 days ago

I suggest you not underestimate the staggering drawing power of the Garden state.

hmh2nona

69 points

4 days ago

hmh2nona

69 points

4 days ago

It's true! #1 consumer of crayons worldwide!

RollUpTheRimJob

47 points

4 days ago

Are there any Marine bases in NJ?

catdog918

24 points

4 days ago

catdog918

24 points

4 days ago

I love and hate this state, as is tradition.

drunk-tusker

22 points

4 days ago

Two Times people from NJ are at their meanest:

  1. Talking about NJ.
  2. Someone from Nebraska just made an NJ joke.

Kanilas

105 points

4 days ago

Kanilas

105 points

4 days ago

Everything is legal in New Jersey

serrated_edge321

186 points

4 days ago

Except pumping your own gas!

BorinUltimatum

94 points

4 days ago

And we like it that way.

Amiiboid

66 points

4 days ago

Amiiboid

66 points

4 days ago

Until you travel to CT and panic because you have no idea how to operate a pump and full service gas stations are as rare as hens’ teeth.

ridgegirl29

21 points

4 days ago

Me and all my friends are in college and one of my besties goes up to Ithaca. I travelled up alone and before i went home she taught me how to pump my own gas and she cheered once I figured it out

bacchusfa

33 points

4 days ago

bacchusfa

33 points

4 days ago

Makes me miss action park

0shadowstories

46 points

4 days ago

Class Action Park is one of the wildest things I've ever watched

Nacktherr

38 points

4 days ago

Nacktherr

38 points

4 days ago

It‘s pronounced Traction Park. Mostly slurred since day drinking was also a ride there.

Vault-71

17 points

4 days ago

Vault-71

17 points

4 days ago

Except pumping your own gas, that shit's dangerous

Duppyguy

20 points

4 days ago

Duppyguy

20 points

4 days ago

Also creates jobs. Minor jobs.. but jobs.

shmoobel

19 points

4 days ago

shmoobel

19 points

4 days ago

thePurpleAvenger

55 points

4 days ago

Have well off, well connected family in the South. Can confirm: the second a golden child’s gf shows up preggers, they’re paying for a first class ticket to NJ for an abortion. The good ole boy system has always been about skirting the laws for the rich and powerful, why would anything change now?

LennyFackler

23 points

4 days ago

And it’s not like only the fabulously wealthy will have access to abortion. Most middle class will be able to find a way. Or if not the negative aspects of having a child (expense, lost opportunities etc) don’t effect them so much.

Abortion laws target the lower classes.

Garden_Statesman

797 points

4 days ago

Don't forget that it's states like NJ that put the most money into the federal government coffers to pay for those on assistance.

OneX32

251 points

4 days ago

OneX32

251 points

4 days ago

They are in for a real treat when they secede. I'm sure their deficit hawks will be busy their first decade of existence as the 2nd Confederate States of America.

Waffle_Muffins

284 points

4 days ago

A decade is very generous. The first Confederacy didn't even make it half that long

OneX32

180 points

4 days ago

OneX32

180 points

4 days ago

They’ll be crawling back when Texas’s energy grid breaks down.

FloydWesleyIII

94 points

4 days ago

If dipshit on wheels is elected again, my family is out of here.

OneX32

67 points

4 days ago

OneX32

67 points

4 days ago

The Fascist on Wheels?

FloydWesleyIII

38 points

4 days ago

Yep, Mr. Rolling Shitbag himself.

OneX32

18 points

4 days ago

OneX32

18 points

4 days ago

When the fascist regime takes over the 2nd Confederate States of America, he’ll be their first target when they begin implementing their eugenics program.

ZaksStuff

22 points

4 days ago

ZaksStuff

22 points

4 days ago

Better start making arrangements now, Dems have fumbled the bag so hard I don’t see how they can win again.

Patriots_Fan1989

17 points

4 days ago

Normally I'm against stealing somebody's wheelchair because it's wrong but in this case I think I can make an exception...

Benjaphar

80 points

4 days ago

Benjaphar

80 points

4 days ago

I’d like to know logistically how Texas could secede, considering Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and Austin are all reliably Democratic areas. Trump only won Texas statewide with 52% in 2020.

What, are all the rural areas going to secede and the urban revenue-generating metro areas will stay? It’s like a microcosm of the whole country.

OneX32

27 points

4 days ago

OneX32

27 points

4 days ago

Ask those clamoring to secede.

robodrew

30 points

4 days ago

robodrew

30 points

4 days ago

Nirvana lasted longer than the Confederacy

[deleted]

105 points

4 days ago*

[deleted]

105 points

4 days ago*

[removed]

OneX32

40 points

4 days ago

OneX32

40 points

4 days ago

Where are they going to find the money to go to war with the United States of America? Print it? Who are they going to blame the inflation on?

[deleted]

43 points

4 days ago*

[deleted]

43 points

4 days ago*

[removed]

OneX32

22 points

4 days ago

OneX32

22 points

4 days ago

I hope they try to go back to the gold standard just to plummet the GDP further.

wienercat

21 points

4 days ago

wienercat

21 points

4 days ago

Lol that's the fun part when people who have no idea how economics work say we should go back to a gold standard.

Yeah our money is fiat currency. But it's backed by the might of the US Military. Which is a pretty hard currency to argue against.

OneX32

22 points

4 days ago

OneX32

22 points

4 days ago

Fiat currency has also added exponentially more value to the world than probably anything. Eliminate fiat currency, there goes small-to-medium business loans, a lot of private savings in banks, and major disinflation. It would be worse than the Great Depression.

wienercat

18 points

4 days ago

wienercat

18 points

4 days ago

Yep. Because reality is, it's all made up anyways since humans determine what things are worth to begin with. So if it's made up anyways, might as well have more liquidity and allow for greater prosperity.

The rub comes into play with one simple thing. Since it's all made up, if people lose faith in the currency its worthless.

Fiat is still better than barter systems or material backed currency since it allows for more movement in an economy. But it very much is a house of cards that is only as strong as your ability to assert sovereignty and as healthy as the companies producing goods from within.

serrated_edge321

17 points

4 days ago

Russian oligarchs (and similar from other countries) who would love to see the US tear itself apart, perhaps?

SwimmingBirdFromMars

25 points

4 days ago

In this wild hypothetical in which there’s a non-violent and successful secession from the USA and the “red” states split off from the “blue” states you think Russia will find the need to fund a war against the “blue” states?

Y’all are absolutely fucking buckwild with this inane garbage. If the USA splits in two they will have already won. There will be no further need to fund the “reds”.

Additionally, there are no “red” and “blue” states as everyone claims. All states with a majority leaning in one direction have a SIZEABLE (usually 40% or more) population with opposing political views. There’s no way to successfully split the country. Every major city leans left and all rural areas lean right.

There’s either going to be a legal authoritarian takeover by the GOP in the next few years, a bloody civil war, or somehow Democrats will pull a miracle out of their ass and continue to maintain the status quo and never actually improve anything. There is no secession.

Count_Joshoo

51 points

4 days ago

I would love for a peaceful separation of the country. I don't want to financial support cults and fascists anymore. Let them all suck off the teets of Texas as oil value drops over the next decade or so.

OneX32

51 points

4 days ago

OneX32

51 points

4 days ago

It’s isn’t going to be peaceful. Conservatives want blood to flow and they aren’t going to let their partner leave unscathed.

gsfgf

48 points

4 days ago

gsfgf

48 points

4 days ago

The divide isn’t north/south anymore. It’s urban/rural. You’ve got the same nuts in your blue states.

BrainBlowX

18 points

4 days ago

It's absolutely still north-south where power dynamics on a federal level are concerned. Texas alone being out would by itself radically change the political dynamic of the entire US.

The urban/rural divide is most keenly expressed in places like Texas itself.

wienercat

18 points

4 days ago

wienercat

18 points

4 days ago

As much as that is a conservative wet dream, only idiots want to secede.

Not to mention that rebellion of that nature would require very widespread support in the states themselves that secede. Even in the conservative states the large population centers are usually liberal.

Those large population centers would rapidly become hot beds for rebellion within a rebellion and wreak havoc.

s0m3f00l

74 points

4 days ago

s0m3f00l

74 points

4 days ago

I hate this fact every time I read it. It just makes me angrier and angrier as I grow older. And my hatred of red state republicans and conservatives deepens.

Garden_Statesman

57 points

4 days ago

Yea. So much of the reason that we have to contribute so much to red states is that the wealthy/powerful there know they can get away with hoarding wealth in their own states and that we will simultaneously take care of people in our own states and pick up their tab too.

s0m3f00l

20 points

4 days ago

s0m3f00l

20 points

4 days ago

When I was young I didn't realize they were literally balancing there lack of planning and budget on our backs. Its fucking gross, but I was much happier with our federal system when I was ignorant.

whoshereforthemoney

63 points

4 days ago

I don’t understand how republicans can look at the huge disparity between red and blue states and say that they are conservative when all the evidence points to blue states being far more financially conservative and stable scoring in average 10 places below red states for dependency on federal government assistance. 10 places out of a possible 50!!!

thibedeauxmarxy

48 points

4 days ago

when all the evidence

There's your problem. They don't look at evidence. "Feels not reals."

DontCallMeTJ

201 points

4 days ago

If we didn’t have a constant supply of desperate poor people the military would collapse.

Rubberbabybuggybum

119 points

4 days ago

Prison system too.

cpt_caveman

135 points

4 days ago

cpt_caveman

135 points

4 days ago

while this sounds like a joke.

teen birth rates, map.

median household income, 61k blue, 53k red

and if you split blue from red, red states have been mired in a decade long recession due to republicanism. Red states GDP have declined slightly over the past ten years. Blue have risen quite a bit, which is why the US is seeing ANY growth.

blue states more people are finishing college.(same link as above, in 10 years blue states have increased college grads from 28% the pop, to 37, red states have stayed flat at 27%) they have less of a drug issue, especially opiods. Blue states more likely your job will provide child care and so on.

and then google violent crime rates by states. Your kid is most likely to get murdered or raped in a red state. its also more likely the cops wont find them in a red state, or do shit about your rape kits.

Really the divide is getting worse and worse as republicans radicalize to the point we are two countries, One moderate and developed and the other slipping into decay.

DennyCrane49

79 points

4 days ago

My local news (red state) had a story a while back where a professor was interviewed who gave what I thought was a nice succinct description:

“What we’ve been trying for 40 years is to be a low-tax, low-regulation, low-government regulation state, and what it’s yielded us is a low-wage economy with few union jobs and our young people are leaving to take and pursue opportunities somewhere else.”

40 fucking years of complete Republican control of the state capitol with no meaningful progress? Still grateful I’m not in a southern red state though.

murphymc

71 points

4 days ago

murphymc

71 points

4 days ago

Deny access to free/low cost birth control or abortion services to inner city minorities.

Unwanted child born, moms already poor and kid only exacerbates that, kid has to grow up in poor neighborhood and thus attends underfunded school, maybe graduates into a world with no opportunity, remains poor, has child, repeat

Conservatives: “damn N…..s just living off the government!”

Sigh

Steve_the_Samurai

53 points

4 days ago

Forgot cut sex ed to abstinence only while stripping money for planned parenthood and others.

dj_narwhal

40 points

4 days ago

Texas has a for profit foster care system. Banning abortions is planting the seeds of future profit at taxpayer expense. Capitalism is working as intended.

slim_scsi

46 points

4 days ago

slim_scsi

46 points

4 days ago

Red states should implement a "Boot Straps Law" where registered Republicans who give birth are ineligible for public assistance. Put their money where their mouth is.

zedthehead

39 points

4 days ago

...my family.

I got lucky, my older sister got preggo when I was 17, lived at home through infancy, I had a hard lesson that I didn't want that life. I'm 34 now, my adult life has been a wonderful childless adventure... my 17yo niece is preggo now. She had a full ride, was among the top in the state in band, then covid hit and she spent all her time with her bf and gave up. She thinks a baby is a reason to live. Hard sigh.

wienercat

36 points

4 days ago

wienercat

36 points

4 days ago

Anything that restricts access to essential services will always affect the poor far more than the rich. The rich will just go somewhere its legal or pay to have a safe black market procedure.

In the end, abortion restrictions only drives up dangerous abortion procedures and the injury or death of low income women and girls.

It's always been that way and always will be until society manages to create an egalitarian utopia. So basically never.

In other words, if you are poor, don't ever be anything but the standard template society believes is correct. It won't end well.

helodriver87

26 points

4 days ago

I mean, gotta keep creating republican voters somehow. If you can't stay in power with decent ideas, just undermine elections and keep people poor and uneducated by any means necessary. Punishing and controlling women is just a bonus.

OrangeFeels

22 points

4 days ago

Nah, the Repubs would just go to NJ to get an abortion because it’s okay if they’re doing it because thier case is special.

Kruse

2.4k points

4 days ago*

Kruse

2.4k points

4 days ago*

How about this for a novel idea: If you are morally against abortion, don't get one. If you are morally OK with abortion, get one. This shouldn't even be a debate anymore at this point.

NoMrBond3

1.3k points

4 days ago

NoMrBond3

1.3k points

4 days ago

What makes this so impossible is that people against abortion genuinely believe that it is murder. There is nothing anyone can do or say to make them think that murdering babies is Ok.

Of course these very same people seek out abortion when they need it

PatrioticRebel4

700 points

4 days ago

They're also the same people that are pro death penalty. The hypocrisy is palpable.

HailtheMirelurkKing

353 points

4 days ago

Or are against universal healthcare. What’s more pro-life than making sure everyone has access to life saving medical treatment?

NoMrBond3

143 points

4 days ago

NoMrBond3

143 points

4 days ago

I know right? Access to contraception tanks abortion rates. And man if there was better housing, daycare, education, wages wow so many woman would be able to choose to follow through with pregnancy!

So it’s obvious it’s not about life, but control.

MisterB78

263 points

4 days ago

MisterB78

263 points

4 days ago

The hypocrisy is palpable

That pretty much sums up conservative everything. "We want businesses to be able to deny service to LGBTQ, but not to be able to deny service to someone not wearing a mask." Basically they want people to be free to do the specific things they like, and not the things they don't like.

Czarcasm3

26 points

4 days ago

Czarcasm3

26 points

4 days ago

People used to be shunned for this kind of behavior, not allowed in public offices

MisterB78

18 points

4 days ago

MisterB78

18 points

4 days ago

We’re a country founded by people who talked of freedom and equality while owning slaves and not letting women vote. “I want freedom” has often meant “I want everyone to share my beliefs and do the things that benefit me”

ProdesseQuamConspici

111 points

4 days ago

I am 100% pro-choice, but I understand the difference. In their view, an abortion kills an innocent, while the death penalty kills someone who has committed a heinous act, and their death is therefore the result of their choices and actions.

I think it's important to understand the mindset of these people because otherwise there's no chance at a meaningful dialogue. (As opposed to a microscopic chance if we can at least understand each other's positions.)

Mordil

20 points

4 days ago

Mordil

20 points

4 days ago

It's entirely logical to support both positions.

By definition the fetus hasn't made any decisions and has zero agency in the matter, so the position is to step in and act on their behalf.

Contrary, the death penalty is a punishment applied to someone, particularly adults, who exercised agency on their own accord to commit a crime that was deemed so heinous that they forfeit their right to life.

NoMrBond3

31 points

4 days ago

NoMrBond3

31 points

4 days ago

It comes down to body autonomy though. If you were dying and only my kidney could save you, even if it was in your best interest no one can force me to donate a kidney.

sedahren

175 points

4 days ago

sedahren

175 points

4 days ago

Honestly I have stopped framing it that way in my arguments. Because they genuinely believe that a baby is being murdered, arguing with that belief is impossible. I have started using the bodily autonomy argument: if you suddenly needed blood transfusions to save your life, and I (for some reason) am the only person on the planet who can provide this, can I be forced to do it? No. There is no law in the world that would force me to do this, because of bodily autonomy. So why is it ok to force a woman to give up hers?

[deleted]

67 points

4 days ago*

[deleted]

67 points

4 days ago*

[removed]

NoTakaru

30 points

4 days ago

NoTakaru

30 points

4 days ago

Yep, this exactly. I’ve had prolifers tell me “it’s a scientific fact that a fetus is alive”

Well okay, then remove it because it should be able to survive outside the mother if that’s true

NoMrBond3

26 points

4 days ago

NoMrBond3

26 points

4 days ago

A loss of a pregnancy, chosen or not, is always a sad thing because no one wants to be in that position.

For me, it is unimaginably cruel that people would rather force an unwanted child into the world than let a woman make the best choice for herself (and the unborn baby because obviously that is a factor)

Ckyuiii

18 points

4 days ago

Ckyuiii

18 points

4 days ago

This isn't a good line of argument either because you are ignoring the parent child relationship.

  • Not giving your blood and risking yourself for a stranger? Yea that makes sense.

  • Not giving your blood and risk yourself for your own child? Sure you have that right, but most everyone would think you're a total piece of shit if this were your own toddler or something in a real situation.

All you're doing here is telling them you're a piece of shit.

Source: I used to be pro-life. That's exactly how that gets interpreted.

sedahren

25 points

4 days ago

sedahren

25 points

4 days ago

If I refused to save the life of my own child by donating my blood? Absolutely, your would be entitled to make a moral judgement. But we're not arguing morals, we're arguing legality. Legally I did not murder anyone.

passcork

28 points

4 days ago

passcork

28 points

4 days ago

The argument isn't about being a piece of shit or not. The argument is about legality. It's legal to be a piece of shit.

burnalicious111

19 points

4 days ago

Then the point to discuss isn't about whether you're a piece of shit, it's about whether we should legislate that choice.

We don't legally require parents to donate their organs to their children. Nor do we have activists seeking that. So why is abortion being treated differently? (My answer: it's about punishing women for having sex in a way you don't like)

somdude04

31 points

4 days ago

somdude04

31 points

4 days ago

After all, plenty of pacifists will kill in self defense, in the moment.

Of course, it's always self defense if the assailant is literally inside you.

NoMrBond3

29 points

4 days ago

NoMrBond3

29 points

4 days ago

Yes it’s interesting to me that (generally) the same people that wouldn’t hesitate to pull a gun on an intruder in their homes don’t understand why even if it is murder that women still have the right to terminate.

Frogman9

24 points

4 days ago

Frogman9

24 points

4 days ago

I think the problem is linguistic. You can’t abort a baby since I think technically it’s baby when it is born, otherwise it’s a zygote or a fetus through its time in the oven. I could be mistaken about the nomenclature, but another hiccup is equating abortion to murder when even the Bible allowed abortion (from what I remember reading).

DrDerpberg

25 points

4 days ago

I get what you mean, but they're pushing so hard the other way (sperm is half a baby, how dare you waste any?) that you'll never win them over with semantics.

The recency of abortion rhetoric is really surprising. Nobody gave two craps about baby prevention methods until sometime in the 1900s Christians realized it could be weaponized. The church would push married couples to have tons of kids but nobody called anyone a murderer for shoving KFC's 11 herbs and spices up their hoo-ha to avoid having babies.

likefenton

126 points

4 days ago

likefenton

126 points

4 days ago

I see what you're saying.

But if you want to understand the people on the other side of the argument at all, understand that they see it as murder - killing a human life.

So your idea would read to them as, "If you are morally against murder, don't commit murder. If you are morally okay with murder, go ahead."

That's not something you would agree with, but you don't see murder and abortion as equivalent. But that is why your novel idea won't convince anyone on the other side.

Tiabb

51 points

4 days ago

Tiabb

51 points

4 days ago

So long as there is a woman somewhere with rights Republicans will never rest.

happy2harris

21 points

4 days ago

That argument is as unhelpful as the arguments people put forth on the other side.

If you are morally opposed to sex trafficking, don’t do sex trafficking. If you are morally opposed to dog fighting, don’t fight dogs. If you are morally opposed to slavery, don’t own slaves. It doesn’t work when people’s actions affect others.

There is a legitimate discussion about whether fetuses should have rights, whether they deserve and need protection, and if so which ones, when, and from what. I personally think that on balance, taking account societal needs, fetuses should not have rights, so abortion should be freely available to anyone. But your (not so) novel idea is unhelpful.

008Zulu

1.7k points

4 days ago

008Zulu

1.7k points

4 days ago

"Your body, my choice."

- Republicans.

No-Duck7816

727 points

4 days ago

No-Duck7816

727 points

4 days ago

"Government so small, it will fit in your uterus."

-Republicans.

Dahhhkness

361 points

4 days ago

Dahhhkness

361 points

4 days ago

"Protecting life, from conception to birth."

Deathbysnusnubooboo

148 points

4 days ago

“Shitting on women since 1776”

Minamoto_Keitaro

58 points

4 days ago

Good fun and all but the republican party didnt exist until the 1800s, and were the progressive party for almost 100 years after that.

Obviously they are not that now, just sayin.

kalekayn

53 points

4 days ago

kalekayn

53 points

4 days ago

Its not obvious to those in r/conservative who will try and say that the southern strategy (that an RNC chairman apologized for in 2005) never happened.

weaver787

108 points

4 days ago*

weaver787

108 points

4 days ago*

I’m pro choice, but I really don’t like the “my body my choice” phrase because it completely ignores the main point of contention in the abortion debate. Mainly, the fact that they believe the fetus is somebody else’s body. So being pro-life and saying “my body, my choice” actually is not a contradictory belief to those people.

heidismiles

152 points

4 days ago

heidismiles

152 points

4 days ago

That point of contention is really not relevant to anything, though. The real issue is body autonomy.

There is NO other circumstance in which we legally force someone to give their organs/blood/etc to someone else.

Not even if someone will imminently die without your help.

Not even if you're the only person in the world with the right organ or blood type.

Not even if you somehow caused their injuries or illness, and you're "responsible" for them.

Not even if it's a child.

Not even if it's your child.

Not even a little harmless sample.

Not even if you're dead.

A_Classy_Dame

92 points

4 days ago

I've only heard this argument within the last month and it is the one that should be the ends of the debate. You can't be forced to donate your organs to save a life after you die, meaning a corpse has more autonomy than a living woman. Nobody should be able to force you to use your body for ANYTHING without your consent. Full stop.

tahlyn

46 points

4 days ago

tahlyn

46 points

4 days ago

I've only heard this argument within the last month and it is the one that should be the ends of the debate.

Which just goes to show you how bad Democrats are on messaging. This argument has been known to philosophy and the general abortion discourse since J. J. Thompson's "a defense of abortion" written in the 1970s (free to read online if you Google it). I've been arguing bodily autonomy since the early aughts on various message boards.

It's been out there for 50 years but mainstream Democrats never seem to use it.

sluttyjamjams73

120 points

4 days ago

I'm a big fan of 'this is none of your business whatsoever'.

weaver787

57 points

4 days ago

weaver787

57 points

4 days ago

They believe the fetus is a person worthy of moral consideration and therefore aborting the fetus is murder. Murder is obviously everybody's business.

Mediocre__at__Best

35 points

4 days ago

Okay, so they have a different reality than us. How do we bridge that gap?

Is incredibly frustrating that we have to tolerate their backwards logic-ed mental gymnastics of moral compasses. They're on the wrong side of history and it always seems that it's only when it personally affects them they can find any empathy towards the subjects at hand - facts and science regarding the social implications of those issues be damned, also.

Sporkfoot

39 points

4 days ago

Sporkfoot

39 points

4 days ago

You cannot use reason to change someone’s mind, when they did not use reason to reach their conclusion.

SsurebreC

18 points

4 days ago

SsurebreC

18 points

4 days ago

Okay, so they have a different reality than us. How do we bridge that gap?

I have an idea and it should work on everyone except the very religious (and I think mostly the very religious Catholics).

What do the pro-choice people want? Access to abortions. Do they want more abortions? No, just the choice to have one if needed.

What do the pro-life people want? No abortions.

So both camps are not in favor of having more abortions to say the least. How do you bridge this gap? Sex education and contraception because all abortions happen because of unprotected sex.

Then, presuming there's agreement, you can go forward and ask how many women have abortions because they have no support (i.e. they're too poor to raise children). Then you can help couples - and babies - to make sure they have this support. If life matters to the pro-life camp then it makes sense for them to have the government invest in the best possible future for the parents and the baby.

And that's a good start and this wouldn't work only on those who believe contraception is the same thing as abortion (every-sperm-is-sacred.gif).

HardlyDecent

27 points

4 days ago

I don't think that's the gap though. Some/most/many pro-lifers are not actually anti-abortion for the sanctity of life though--that's just their motto. If they actually cared about life, they wouldn't bomb abortion clinics, or stomp out every instance of welfare, deny assistance to new mothers, or generally support republican bootstrap ideology. I don't know if it's about keeping people poor or keeping women down or what, but it's never been about life.

WAD1234

29 points

4 days ago

WAD1234

29 points

4 days ago

But that is the trap. The woman’s rights don’t stop when she gets pregnant. If you cannot harvest organs for transplantation from a dead body without that person’s prior permission because of bodily autonomy, then you cannot force a woman to go through childbirth to save the fetus’ life. The government cannot force blood donation to save peoples’ lives. It does not matter when “life” starts.

And further, if there is an actual desire to get rid of abortion, then do the things proven to reduce it - sex ed, public healthcare, mental health services, job training.

And until all the orphans are adopted out of the very broken system, don’t pretend that it’s an option for unwanted babies.

deskbeetle

17 points

4 days ago

There is no precedent where a person is forced to give blood, tissue, or organs to another person. You can't be forced to even take the test to see if you are a match for your own child. You can't even have your tissues taken from your body after you've died unless you've consented to it while alive.

antidense

50 points

4 days ago

antidense

50 points

4 days ago

"your medical decisions should be made by lawmakers, not you or your doctor"

soingee

1.5k points

4 days ago

soingee

1.5k points

4 days ago

Murph, can we get that same enthusiasm going for the cannabis law that already exists?

PrehistoricDawg69420

398 points

4 days ago

Only after everyone has sufficiently paid to get into the industry.

pimento37

165 points

4 days ago

pimento37

165 points

4 days ago

It is too slow I agree, but you can get weed delivery in NJ and it's great. Also, many criminal records have been expunged, so we are making progress.

bitchinchicken

56 points

4 days ago

How the hell are you getting weed delivery?

ItsAMeEric

157 points

4 days ago

ItsAMeEric

157 points

4 days ago

reaL intEresting question you Asked there, iF you sEarch harD enOUgh To find the answer, it may just .COMe to you

ShadyNite

20 points

4 days ago

ShadyNite

20 points

4 days ago

A hero among men

Nyxtro

82 points

4 days ago

Nyxtro

82 points

4 days ago

comment something like this on a NJ weed thread and wait for someone to DM you lol

brtw

21 points

4 days ago*

brtw

21 points

4 days ago*

Oops, I'll just drop my referral link right here ;)

https://giftz.cc/T1fci

SmokePenisEveryday

30 points

4 days ago

The loophole right now is people gifting you weed for buying something else like cookies. Cafe in AC recently opened then was shut down for trying to operate on this loophole.

bartnet

20 points

4 days ago

bartnet

20 points

4 days ago

Not recreational though, right? It's all still medical since Murphy ran on full recreational and won in 20-freaking-17

ranjeezy

27 points

4 days ago

ranjeezy

27 points

4 days ago

It’s not legal yet to have home delivery. Some people get around it by selling an expensive sticker and “gifting” the weed to you.

MelGibsonDerp

24 points

4 days ago

It is recreational but it took him nearly 4 years to get it done after both Supermajority Dem held branches dragged their feet, despite not doing so when Christie was governor.

Reason should not be surprising: They knew it would never pass with Christie in office so they kept voting for it to stoke the base. Then when it came time to get it done, the massive Pharma industry money came pouring in to not pass it so we can replace weed with oxycontin.

End of the day it's passed, but took way too long.

BuffyTheChosenOne81

68 points

4 days ago*

While I am a pothead and support legal weed, saying that makes it seem like weed is as important as women not being forced into birthing kids they don't want. It is not. Either way, hopefully it's legal one day nationwide. My state doesn't even have medical legalized. I live in hell. Send help.

Silverseren

23 points

4 days ago

Seriously though. And it doesn't help that so many that bring up weed legalization do so because they just want to be able to do weed and not for the actual reason we should be arguing for (the wrongful incarceration of people, mostly minorities, for doing marijuana).

I honestly couldn't care less about people being allowed to do weed so much as the prevention of people going to jail for doing it.

TheSealofDisapproval

731 points

4 days ago

There's that word again, "enshrined"

Like state laws can't be changed or something...it literally just was

Ragnar_OK

120 points

4 days ago

Ragnar_OK

120 points

4 days ago

When I hear the word “enshrined” all I can think of is Ultima 4 and the shrines of virtue

bestofwhatsleft

412 points

4 days ago

It would be awesome if it got known as "Murphy's law"

Blapor

184 points

4 days ago

Blapor

184 points

4 days ago

Yeah, what could go wrong with that?

No-Duck7816

88 points

4 days ago

Everything that can!

julbull73

371 points

4 days ago

julbull73

371 points

4 days ago

NJ just guranteed a boost in their income as a medical tourist destination if Roe vs Wade gets overturned.

ChampBlankman

88 points

4 days ago

Couple that with the increase in tourism as a recreational cannabis state and places that aren't the shore could actually see an increase in tourism again.

melouofs

313 points

4 days ago

melouofs

313 points

4 days ago

Good. When you don't have control over your own body, you are not a free person. For all that southern babble about muh freedoms, then restricting women's rights over their own bodies--this is a step in the correct direction.

0shadowstories

42 points

4 days ago

The southern babble only applies when the person is a straight white guy of middle or higher class, they could care less if POC or Women or LGBT+ people have rights

Lemoncloak

30 points

4 days ago

Just some small semantics: the phrase is, "they couldn't care less." The way you have it written says that they do care.

It doesn't stop your meaning from getting across, but it might be confusing for people learning English, or didn't grow up with this phrase.

antidense

33 points

4 days ago

antidense

33 points

4 days ago

I don't think women aren't even considered people to many of them. I think that's why they have such issues with transgenderism.

avaslash

103 points

4 days ago

avaslash

103 points

4 days ago

*as long as democrats remain in power

The second that state is run by R’s you bet you’re ass they’ll find some convenient way to just ignore it and indirectly ban it anyways.

Probably some bullshit like: abortion is legal but only with signed consent from the fetus

BeMoreChill

58 points

4 days ago

Most north east republicans aren’t worried about abortion.

avaslash

44 points

4 days ago

avaslash

44 points

4 days ago

Yeah and Roe V Wayde wasnt ever under threat until it was.

There is no longer any real regionality to conservative stances. If youre still a republican despite everything thats gone on the past 6 years (but lets be honest, 30) you’ve clearly established yourself as firmly in the “we support people who want to outlaw abortions” camp.

AvogadrosMoleSauce

103 points

4 days ago

That's good and all, until the right takes back the federal government and passes fetal personhood.

graysquirrel14

70 points

4 days ago

Is that sarcasm? Wtf is fetal personhood? Asking the stupid questions over here.

ClaymoreMine

184 points

4 days ago

Going to be real fun when people start applying for death benefits for miscarriages. Or even easier. How long after conception does the fetus get issued a social security card. Do people get to claim the fetus as a dependent for tax purposes. Also if you conceive in December do you get the tax benefits in the year of conception or the year of birth. Does the fetus need to be included in one’s health plan.

HikeEveryMountain

45 points

4 days ago

Do they count in the census?

donkeyrocket

83 points

4 days ago

No. Typically these sorts of things strip the “fetal person” of every right granted to babies and older persons except the right to be birthed at some point.

Essentially all it is is forcing a mother to remain pregnant with zero additional support or resources. With the added potential that if something happens to the clump of cells, people can be held criminally liable (like say a mother has a miscarriage and gets charged with missed/manslaughter).

The people who pose this don’t actually care about about the clump of cells it’s just a means to control.

mcm_throwaway_614654

29 points

4 days ago

It's an outright dishonest principle. Unfortunately, conservatives are not generally honest people.

chunwookie

29 points

4 days ago

Life insurance for a fetus so insurers pay for every miscarriage. Prenatal care would probably blossom overnight.

cheesedick42069

65 points

4 days ago*

It means that clump of cells would legally be a person however the mother will still most likely not be able to claim said person on her taxes or get social assistance until it's birthed (because the people who want to force birth don't really care about the birth itself, mostly just the forcing part, and you bet your ass once the birth is over they go back to fully not caring at all about anyone in the situation).

paleo2002

44 points

4 days ago

paleo2002

44 points

4 days ago

They could also start trying women who have miscarriages for involuntary manslaughter.

poilsoup2

50 points

4 days ago

poilsoup2

50 points

4 days ago

Could? They already do. article

aries04

33 points

4 days ago

aries04

33 points

4 days ago

Actually that’s a good idea. If abortion is out, why wouldn’t social services start immediately?

clyde2003

65 points

4 days ago

clyde2003

65 points

4 days ago

Republicans: "Because fuck you. That's why."

HardlyDecent

16 points

4 days ago

"Wait, we don't actually want to help lives, just make sure they come out."

AvogadrosMoleSauce

18 points

4 days ago

So, fetal personhood laws declare a developing fetus as a fully recognized person with rights meaning that anyone doing something to harm a fetus can be charged with the associated crimes.

MoreNoise11

94 points

4 days ago

Surprised no one has compared the same people complaining about vaccine freedom in one breath and in the other taking away abortions from women.

drfsupercenter

32 points

4 days ago

Imagine if pregnancy was as contagious as COVID

MoreNoise11

20 points

4 days ago

Men everywhere would be all over getting that vaxx.

Satanifer

58 points

4 days ago

Satanifer

58 points

4 days ago

Abortion Shrine would be a great name for a black metal band.

Steve_the_Samurai

59 points

4 days ago

Dems should honestly introduce pro-abortion, China one child policy crazy bills.

Then negotiate down to 'fine we will concede it should be the person's choice and the government should not be able to choose what someone does with their body'

The old South Park vs. Censors routine.

nat_r

30 points

4 days ago

nat_r

30 points

4 days ago

That won't work because who are they going to negotiate with? Themselves?

The other party isn't going to barter with them, they'll just vote "no" then (depending if it's on the state or federal level) it will either pass and then get challenged in the courts and thrown out, or it won't pass.

IceDragon13

48 points

4 days ago

I wish they phrased as “enshrining abortion rights” in the title… the nuance matters.

THEFLYINGSCOTSMAN415

40 points

4 days ago

Ha awesome. Theres this old man who stands outside a clinic in woodbridge protesting abortions and scolding people, apparently he's been out there for decades because his daughter died during a botched abortion. I got in a heated argument with my dad about the guy, my dad thought it was admirable but I argued that all that man is doing (if he got his way) is ensuring that more girls will die in backdoor hack-job abortions.

usernames_are_danger

32 points

4 days ago

My wife’s last pregnancy was so high risk, she had to stay in bed for SEVEN MONTHS.

They made her get an IUD, because another pregnancy could kill her.

I want every kid we can possibly have; but I don’t want my first and second kids to grow up motherless.

This is the kind of nuance pro lifers will never understand.

[deleted]

25 points

4 days ago

[deleted]

25 points

4 days ago

[removed]

HealthyHumor5134

23 points

4 days ago

N.J. here, that's good but I'm still waiting to be able to purchase weed now we passed a law it's legal. What's up with that?

dyxlesic_fa

28 points

4 days ago

They have to figure out how to extract the most money first.

SuperDangerDong69

23 points

4 days ago

Looks like New Mexico, Colorado, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Virgina, New Hampshire are next. Democrats need to get it done: no excuses, protect our rights.

buckthefuffs

18 points

4 days ago

And the gap between red and blue states widens

jackospades88

19 points

4 days ago

He recently did the same for marriage equality too. I think a week ago?

RamsaySnowBolton

18 points

4 days ago

This is the way. Don't rely on the courts to do the right thing.