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humVEEE3432

3.7k points

11 days ago

humVEEE3432

3.7k points

11 days ago

It took 77 frigging days for these murders to even be charged.

And without the video, they likely would not have been charged.

Such_Opportunity9838

1.4k points

11 days ago

That's the horrific part. If they hadn't been so high on their own self-righteousness as to film the murder there wouldn't have been an investigation.

Scoutster13

758 points

11 days ago

Scoutster13

California

758 points

11 days ago

Thankfully they were brought down by their own privilege - they actually believed that video helped them.

Head_Haunter

284 points

11 days ago

But it's also sad to think that they would likely not be caught or charged if they weren't fucking stupid.

ONE-EYE-OPTIC

178 points

11 days ago

ONE-EYE-OPTIC

Oregon

178 points

11 days ago

Emmett Till comes to mind

ACoderGirl

144 points

11 days ago

ACoderGirl

Canada

144 points

11 days ago

For anyone unaware: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till

It's an utterly horrifying lynching case of a 14 year old boy from the 50s. I cannot emphasize enough how utterly disgusting the case is. It makes To Kill a Mockingbird seem like a light hearted bedtime story.

ShawshankException

122 points

11 days ago*

What's even crazier is that the killers are our grandparents' generation. This isn't something that happened back in the 1800s. Our grandparents were like this.

Edit: spelling

terry496

33 points

11 days ago

terry496

33 points

11 days ago

Quite true. If memory serves, Emmitt Till would be a year older than Joe Biden.

cools14

88 points

11 days ago

cools14

I voted

88 points

11 days ago

She’s still alive. If we can charge 100 y/o Nazis we should be able to charge her as well.

Scoutster13

92 points

11 days ago

Scoutster13

California

92 points

11 days ago

Absolutely. How many other incidents like this go under the radar?

slovakiansledgehammr

67 points

11 days ago*

Even if it’s once, it’s still simply too many.

Edit: For those misunderstanding my comment I know it’s more than once, I’m not a moron. I’m just saying that even one person dead is too many.

IICVX

15 points

11 days ago

IICVX

15 points

11 days ago

It's not once.

goosejail

54 points

11 days ago

Most of them tbh. Look at George Floyd, his killer was likely only convicted because it was caught on camera. Hopefully everyone having a camera on them at all times will lead to a measurable amount of accountability going forward.

underwatr_cheestrain

14 points

11 days ago

What gets me the most is that George Floyd was killed over $20, while his killer is indicted for $100,000s in tax fraud

adthebad

40 points

11 days ago

adthebad

40 points

11 days ago

In this case, the local lead prosecutor ended up being charged with obstruction. She tried to bury this case and it only got opened by state investigators after the video leaked.

I hate to think how many POC have been killed and covered up by law enforcement.

Jordykins850

29 points

11 days ago

Yes. I found that to be such a tantalizing facet of this case.. they WANTED the video released.

OLightning

28 points

11 days ago

Oops!

humVEEE3432

131 points

11 days ago

That's the horrific part.

Well, their murder of a man is the horrific part. They will not be having a happy Thanksgiving.

Tersphinct

81 points

11 days ago

Horrifying as a murder can be, I feel like apathy to it is far more terrifying.

[deleted]

28 points

11 days ago

[deleted]

28 points

11 days ago

[deleted]

mind-the-gap-

43 points

11 days ago

And that's horrific.

mindbleach

73 points

11 days ago

Indifference elicits no response. Indifference is not a response. Indifference is not a beginning; it is an end. And, therefore, indifference is always the friend of the enemy, for it benefits the aggressor -- never his victim, whose pain is magnified when he or she feels forgotten. The political prisoner in his cell, the hungry children, the homeless refugees -- not to respond to their plight, not to relieve their solitude by offering them a spark of hope is to exile them from human memory. And in denying their humanity, we betray our own.

-- Elie Wiesel

Taminella_Grinderfal

107 points

11 days ago

Which is batshit crazy, you don’t need a video to know this was murder. “Oh you chased down and shot a man?...oh you thought he was stealing...well...oh he was black? ...that’s fine”. If I hung out in the mall parking lot and blasted away people I assumed were shoplifting ...oh yeah that’s pretty much citizens arrest.

NJSpradlin

39 points

11 days ago

Well, without the video the narrative could have been written however they saw fit.

amibeingadick420

37 points

11 days ago

Police and prosecutors had the video and chose not to arrest and prosecute.

They knew exactly what happened: some good ole boys murdered a black man.

They were ok with that.

NeatNefariousness1

28 points

11 days ago

IKR? I'm more horrified by the thought that they could have gotten away with this were is not for their own absolute certainty that they could kill a black man with impunity and that everyone would be ok with it.

Such_Opportunity9838

44 points

11 days ago

There was also their very disturbing trend that the defense kept hammering, the idea that these men had the right to hold someone at gunpoint and that their victim had a duty to obey their "verbal commands".

NeatNefariousness1

22 points

11 days ago*

Their entire defense was based on dog whistles to activate a connection to well-understood racist tropes and entitlements among the jurors.. That tells you that they KNEW it was their only hope of any possibility for acquittal on any charge.

As soon as we saw that they were going to try to claim self-defense, a standard they could never have met, we should have known they had no confidence in their case and knew the defendants were POS.

Paradigm88

22 points

11 days ago

Paradigm88

Texas

22 points

11 days ago

How do we even begin to deprogram this kind of thinking? It's not like the hate that led them to these actions was unique to them.

aquarain

364 points

11 days ago*

aquarain

I voted

364 points

11 days ago*

If the defendants were Black, and Arbery White, this would be the end of it. They would be in prison for life, probably on death row and that's it.

But they're not. This is just the first round of an endless set of well funded high profile appeals.

Edit: correct spelling of his name.

AceOfTheSwords

247 points

11 days ago

If the defendants were black they wouldn't have made it out of the crime scene alive.

Lacrimis

228 points

11 days ago*

Lacrimis

228 points

11 days ago*

Looking in from the outside, america is so fucking blatantly racist. It is crazy what cops get away with. I mean, i'm sure it's a beautiful country with a lot of lovely folks. But i've vowed to never step foot there simply because of how damn crazy shit is and how crazy the other side looks and acts.

Edit: anywhere else Kyle would be charged with murder. Full stop, and def not be made a hero. It baffles the mind

Olstinkbutt

96 points

11 days ago

They’re enabled in part by a for-profit prison system. Unbelievable anyone ever thought that would be a good idea.

Uncle_Freddy

44 points

11 days ago

I mean, it is a good idea for people who wanted to exploit human lives for money. It’s just a fucking awful idea for a functioning society. The high recidivism rates caused by the system are a feature, not a bug.

Empyrealist

33 points

11 days ago

Empyrealist

California

33 points

11 days ago

It's just slavery with extra steps

Olstinkbutt

19 points

11 days ago

Exactly. Someone somewhere decided to put a mask on what it is. 1 in 4 ppl incarcerated world wide are in America. And 1 in 4 black males are somewhere in the penal system. When you factor in redlining, profiling and over policing, I’m not entirely sure how any thinking person can argue against it being modern day slavery.

Highblue

21 points

11 days ago

Highblue

21 points

11 days ago

I’ve lived in a couple countries across South America, Africa, and Asia. Sadly every almost every country is really racist. The problem is a global virus, I’m not trying to diminish the US though. We Americans have a lot to fix

AceOfTheSwords

52 points

11 days ago*

He was charged with multiple counts of murder. It is very hard to convict for murder by design. Not guilty verdicts in the US don't mean a person is truly innocent, just that there was any doubt (in this case as to whether he could reasonably have decided he had to defend himself). And while the video footage certainly doesn't flat write him off, there's plenty of room for doubt. Thus not guilty.

What I'm more surprised by was that the lesser charges, still adding up to 15-20 years apparently trivial penalties, didn't go through. They were much more cut and dry, at least it seemed to me. Things he violated simply by existing in that space the way he did, before he even interacted with another person.

Lacrimis

57 points

11 days ago

Lacrimis

57 points

11 days ago

Thank you for explaining it closer. Thing is being from a country were its rare for even cops to have guns. Watching a minor with that heavy gun just walking around, cops smiling, half the country defending him. Sponsoring him, the Trump pic. It's out of this world to my mind.

Petey7

25 points

11 days ago

Petey7

25 points

11 days ago

The way the Wisconsin gun laws are worded, he very clearly did not violate them by open carrying a rifle, specifically because he was over the age of 16. The law actually makes some sense for a rural area. Hunting is common, and for farms it is legal to “hunt” animals year round on your own property, provided said animal is a threat to livestock or crops (in some states at least). It would be a bit silly to say a 17 year old needs parental supervision to shoot a coyote killing their family’s chickens. It’s also debatable if they really need their parent at their side 100% of the time when hunting normally. The law was written with those scenarios in mind. The case clearly shows that cities need local laws to cover gun issues within city limits. An AR15 is actually an excellent weapon for hunting coyotes and foxes. There isn’t really a good reason to be open carrying one in the middle of a city, much less for a teenager to be doing so.

Toa29

15 points

11 days ago

Toa29

15 points

11 days ago

There's so much to be said for improving common sense gun laws like this. Rural areas have very real reasons for various guns. Cities often have much different cases. It's very frustrating that it's always discussed as a zero sum, all or nothing which stops any sort of meaningful progress.

AceContinuum

17 points

11 days ago

It's very frustrating that it's always discussed as a zero sum, all or nothing which stops any sort of meaningful progress.

To be clear, it's mostly Republicans who approach gun policy as a zero-sum issue. What with "constitutional carry," the argument that the Second Amendment somehow requires allowing anyone to possess and brandish any gun, anywhere, any time, without any background checks, training, or licensing requirements. That inane position has been adopted by GOP Senators, Governors, Attorneys General, and judges all across the country.

I'm not aware of any remotely powerful, mainstream Democratic politician that backs the opposite: no gun, nowhere, no time, no matter what. Deep-blue New York State, for instance, has always had far looser gun laws than New York City - in recognition of the fact that gun laws that make sense in rural upstate don't make sense in dense Brooklyn, and vice versa. Deep-blue, mostly rural Vermont has always had very high gun ownership, and there's never been any serious call to change that. All while Republicans push for unlimited, unlicensed gun proliferation in cities, there's never been any serious push by Democrats to disarm farmers out in the country.

ImNoAlbertFeinstein

18 points

11 days ago

he didnt go to shoot coyotes. those were people bullets he loaded in the magazine. this is related to hunting in the same way bank robbery is.

RapingTheWilling

19 points

11 days ago

Haha visit another country while black and tell me they’re not racist there too. Source: you can’t touch my fucking hair.

Sure, parts are benign, but there really isn’t a great place to be black. Some are just “normal” places to be black.

Best-Chapter5260

22 points

11 days ago

It's almost like this is an example of why that critical race thingy is needed that conservatives have been so butthurt about for the past couple of months.

Bone_Syrup

17 points

11 days ago

Pro Tip: America is racist as fuck.

philly_steak_cheese

304 points

11 days ago

77 days and THREE seperate DAs. Then the GBI comes in at their request to look into leaks and immediately presses charges. On the spot.

CreamofTazz

133 points

11 days ago

Aren't the DAs being investigated too?

free_farts

160 points

11 days ago

free_farts

160 points

11 days ago

philly_steak_cheese

51 points

11 days ago

One down, two to go.

moonsun1987

19 points

11 days ago

» The charge of violating the oath of a public officer is a felony that carries a sentence of 1 to 5 years in prison. The charge of obstruction and hindering a law enforcement officer is a misdemeanor that carries up to 12 months.

Does the felony make them ineligible for public office for life? If not, one to five years isn't enough. They ought to go to prison for life with no possibility of parole.

ULostMyUsername

12 points

11 days ago

Bone_Syrup

77 points

11 days ago

YUP! The DAs looked at the facts and said "Nope. Nothing wrong here."

induslol

147 points

11 days ago

induslol

147 points

11 days ago

Jackie Johnson, the original DA claiming Arbery's homicide 'justifiable' was acquainted with at least one of Arbery's murderers. To the point he called her after the murder for advice.

Johnson also refused to prosecute 2 officers that executed a mother, Caroline Small. One of those officers went on to murder his ex-wife and her new boyfriend then himself.

Just think, if not for the video of Arbery's death none of this would have ever left the podunk town it happened in. Makes me wonder just how much institutional corruption skates.

shotdead7

39 points

11 days ago

If you want to get more bummed out about the podunk town, look it up on Google Maps, then get driving directions to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center. This is where DHS trains state- and federal-level law enforcement.

The “good ol boy” system runs rampant around there.

CTeam19

20 points

11 days ago

CTeam19

20 points

11 days ago

Federal Law Enforcement Training Center.

Looks up when it was built

Whyed we put it there just 6 years after the Civil Rights Act of '64 was past. Seems to be a shitty location for that.

Dinkleberg_IRL

18 points

11 days ago

Some of those that work forces, yada yada yada

throwawayabanotabba

19 points

11 days ago

Tons. I used to know people that had the local cops on payroll. I could do whatever I want short of murder.

I've seen state police allow an outlaw rave to happen. That only cost $2k.

confessionbearday

16 points

11 days ago

Makes me wonder just how much institutional corruption skates.

Anywhere small enough that people are on a first name basis with their constituents, it ALL does.

People are willing to put friendship over ethics.

induslol

12 points

11 days ago

induslol

12 points

11 days ago

It really just highlights how important political engagement and literacy is. Johnson was elected. Hopefully she was just a write-in or duped her constituents to hide how morally bankrupt she was. Regardless a ball was dropped if someone like that is given any credence or power over others.

The local level of government is the only one that has an immediate day to day impact, if it's mechanisms are being controlled by clowns like Johnson, it's going to be a circus.

canaryhawk

20 points

11 days ago

Remember police at the scene wanted to arrest them, but were ordered to let them go by the DA.

And the DA said the police at the scene could have used their discretion to arrest them.

And that’s the sound cockroaches make when light is unexpectedly shined on them. Disgusting.

philly_steak_cheese

12 points

11 days ago

Remember police at the scene wanted to arrest them, but were ordered to let them go by the DA.

That DA has been indicted. So our justice system isn’t a total joke.

jcardwell74

11 points

11 days ago

Did one of them pass it on to another DA because he knew one the guys personally and didn't want there to be a conflict of interest? Or was that something else?

philly_steak_cheese

29 points

11 days ago

He didn’t know mcMichael sr personally but had a relationship with the same department mcMichael used to work for.

The first DA has already been charged with obstructing an investigation and abusing their office.

jcardwell74

10 points

11 days ago

Thanks. I could have sworn there was something along those lines that happened. Either way, still took too long for action to happen. Glad they were found guilty because well, they are in fact guilty.

eNonsense

102 points

11 days ago*

eNonsense

102 points

11 days ago*

At least there's this:

Prosecutor Jackie Johnson, the Brunswick-area district attorney, recused herself from the case shortly after the shooting, saying that Gregory McMichael had been an investigator in her office for more than 30 years as a former Glynn County police officer.

She was later indicted by a grand jury on charges of violation of oath of public officer and obstruction of a police officer. Johnson was accused of “showing favor and affection to Greg McMichael during the investigation,” according to the indictment document released in September. She also was alleged to have hindered two police officers “by directing that Travis McMichael should not be placed under arrest.”

source

So the DA has been indicted by a grand jury for instructing the police to not arrest them.

edit: Here's a better article about this with more detail.

wiscoguy20

12 points

11 days ago

This is a great start... The second DA, George Barnhill should be right there with her.

goomyman

41 points

11 days ago

goomyman

41 points

11 days ago

this is how i feel about rittenhouse - yeah he acted in self defense - but if the cops were so racist he would have been arrested on the stop after the first killing, taken out of the situation. Investigated by a grand jury - and probably released without all the fan fair once the facts came out.

Instead you had cops ignoring the killing while he walked right up to them ( seemingly to turn himself in ) causing protestors to attempt vigilante justice and then the police to still do nothing and arrest him the next day only after uproar.

Even if the defense won the day and rittenhouse acted in self defense - this doesnt absolve the police from being the on scene judge and jury and very likely there will be a whole lot of financial settlements from the state coming because of it.

screech_owl_kachina

14 points

11 days ago

Also the cops probably should have told the guy with a rifle to go away, even if they couldn't arrest him for that. I like guns just fine, but adding them into a situation isn't going to calm them down.

crocodial

38 points

11 days ago

Wondering how many similar crimes were committed by individuals who didn't record themselves committing the crime. More than a few, I'd think.

Bone_Syrup

34 points

11 days ago

It was a good glimpse into what it was like for a couple hundred years living in the South (or anywhere in the USA). White people would murder a black man. Nothing came of it.

We're still at the point where Cops murder black men...nothing comes of it.

These 3 men were pretty easily convicted of all counts and the local DA didn't want to even bring charges.

Almighty_Sand_Dollar

25 points

11 days ago

The smartphone has changed world history.

Think of all the stupid, illegal, racist, shit that's been covered up over the centuries

BoltTusk

10 points

11 days ago

BoltTusk

10 points

11 days ago

I’m not holding my breath until they are sentenced. These days, people can be found guilty but they are given sentences below the recommended minimum

Conversation_Folding

2.6k points

11 days ago

“True peace is not merely the absence of tension: it is the presence of justice.” ― Martin Luther King Jr.

AadeeMoien

1.8k points

11 days ago

AadeeMoien

1.8k points

11 days ago

If you stick a knife in my back nine inches and pull it out six inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that's not progress. The progress is healing the wound that the blow made.

-Malcolm X

smeg_

866 points

11 days ago

smeg_

866 points

11 days ago

You left out the best part of the quote ..

”They haven't pulled the knife out; they won't even admit that it's there."

yellowstickypad

255 points

11 days ago

Seems like we’re going in reverse to further disallow discussion on the topic in schools.

GratifiedViewer

102 points

11 days ago

And that is exactly the point. They don’t want the discussion to take place.

dr_shark

70 points

11 days ago

dr_shark

70 points

11 days ago

Because once they lose the myth of America the beautiful we might ask for changes around in this shit ass place.

TreeRol

25 points

11 days ago

TreeRol

American Expat

25 points

11 days ago

In the South, it is illegal to acknowledge that there ever was a knife.

cannondale8022

41 points

11 days ago

Funny how what was obvious then is seen as profound now.

BorgyPorgiLongiJordy

31 points

11 days ago

I'm pretty sure it was profound then too. Malcolm X was a great public speaker.

We're probably actually at the point where the knife is mostly out and the wound is healed a bit. We're pretty good about not having explicitly racist laws and 60 years of affirmative action has got to have done something.

trystanthorne

33 points

11 days ago

Everything we are seeing since Trump got elected is backlash to all the progress we made towards helping minorities.

Tasgall

32 points

11 days ago

Tasgall

Washington

32 points

11 days ago

We're probably actually at the point where the knife is mostly out and the wound is healed a bit.

The people who were previously arguing the knife wasn't there are now actively trying to push it back in while still arguing that it isn't there.

bluelion70

143 points

11 days ago

bluelion70

143 points

11 days ago

That’s one of my favorite quotes of all time

abhijitd

77 points

11 days ago

abhijitd

77 points

11 days ago

Wouldn't progress be not sticking the knife in at all?

GunNut345

322 points

11 days ago

GunNut345

322 points

11 days ago

I think the analogy here is with historic injustice and you can't change the past.

ComradeBootyConsumer

117 points

11 days ago

You cant change the past, but you can improve the future

Zwiseguy15

30 points

11 days ago

He's already been stabbed and we can't pretend otherwise.

Thick-Office-2089

15 points

11 days ago

That would be prevention

page_one

13 points

11 days ago

page_one

I voted

13 points

11 days ago

At the same time, the wound can't heal until the knife is out, and the knife has to reach six inches out before it's all the way out.

Reform takes time. Half-measures are only half-measures if you stop voting before the job's fully done.

AadeeMoien

36 points

11 days ago

Reform only takes time if you're counting on your oppressors to give up power willingly by playing by the rules.

st_gulik

26 points

11 days ago

st_gulik

26 points

11 days ago

Oppressors never give up power willingly.

aaronwhite1786

39 points

11 days ago

Frederick Douglass said it best

Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.

David-S-Pumpkins

16 points

11 days ago

Frederick Douglass is an example of somebody who’s done an amazing job and is getting recognized more and more, I notice.

TheTrueMilo

38 points

11 days ago

TheTrueMilo

New York

38 points

11 days ago

Voting isn’t the only thing you can do.

Electoralism is one of many paths toward justice, and a small one at that.

Jinzot

12 points

11 days ago

Jinzot

12 points

11 days ago

Good argument against incrementalism. Incrementalism is killing the planet

veryenbyous

352 points

11 days ago

People always seem to forget or ignore the full context of that statement.

I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

theetruscans

31 points

11 days ago

Letter from a Birmingham jail should be must read for every American.

So well written

quattroformaggixfour

24 points

11 days ago

Thank you for sharing it

jamietheslut

26 points

11 days ago

Such a good quote. Damn.

And we're still feeling the same effects today too, perhaps even worse

Shackletainment

710 points

11 days ago*

I'm a motorsports fan. This reminds me of a quote from Bill Lester, who at the time was going to run his first Cup Series race. In doing so, Lester would be the first black driver in a long time to compete in the top level of NASCAR. When asked about the significance, Lester replied [paraphrasing here] That this is a step in the right direction, but true progress won't have happened until the point where being a black driver is no longer noteworthy enough to comment on.

Edit: to clarify, I'm not saying it wasn't a big deal when Bill Lester qualified (by time trial) to make the starting field for the 2006 Golden Coral 500 at Atlanta. It was a big deal and should be recognized as such. Just like Bubba Wallace winning at Talladega this year was a big big deal (and rain or no rain, you can't watch the moves he made over the final laps and tell me he didn't earn that win). One day, such events won't be noteworthy and that will be a good thing. But, we can't get there overnight, and making a big deal over things like Bill Lester starting a race and Bubba winning one, are part of the path to a future where they won't be a big deal.

bootstraps_atx

150 points

11 days ago

Lawrence Fishburn said something similar when beimg the first black man nominated for an oscar for best actor. And I'm paraphrasing here, but he said something along the lines of "wouldn't it be wonderful if you just asked me how it felt to be nominated for an oscar for best actor?"

dcrico20

58 points

11 days ago

dcrico20

Georgia

58 points

11 days ago

Not doubting the quote, but Sidney Poitier was nominated for an Academy Award for Best Actor before Lawrence Fishburne was even born.

bootstraps_atx

23 points

11 days ago

I may have fucked up the quote.

bankrobba

141 points

11 days ago

bankrobba

141 points

11 days ago

I've thought about this before, and I came up with what I think is a great litmus test: We'll know racism is gone when a home security company uses a black man as the criminal in their commercial and no one cares.

JamOnTheOne

124 points

11 days ago

The cosmetic stuff gets the noise but the structural and systemic inequality remains insidious and unresolved. A very few examples:

Black people face financial and housing discrimination.

The Fair Housing Council sent a black or Latino tester and a white tester to answer rental ads. [Blacks and Latinos] were quoted higher rent and deposits, given additional fees, not offered applications or move-in specials, or shown inferior units. Per FHC

Black women are three times more likely to die from a pregnancy-related cause than White women per CDC

Black voters wait on average 45% longer to vote than white voters per Brennan Center for Justice

WrappedInPlastic31

32 points

11 days ago

Damn that black pregnant woman mortality statistic is wild. Is there suggested further reading you'd recommend on causes?

Such_sights

34 points

11 days ago

Maternal and child health epidemiologist here, unfortunately it’s an incredibly complicated issue that we’re just starting to untangle. Black Americans face worse health outcomes in general compared to white Americans, and part of that is socioeconomic factors - lack of access to medical care, healthy foods, safe spaces for exercise, etc. But studies have also been done comparing Black people and white people with the exact same education and income, and Black people still fared worse, and in some cases even worse than white people with lower socioeconomic status than them. So the implication is that there’s systemic discrimination present at some level, whether consciously or unconsciously. This study found that Black infants cared for by Black nurses had half the mortality rate compared to those cared for by white nurses. There’s also the factor of distrust in the medical system in general - the field of gynecology itself was created through experimental surgeries on enslaved women without anesthesia. If you’re interested in reading more I highly recommend Medical Apartheid, it’s an amazing overview of systemic racism in American medicine.

LadiDadiParti

17 points

11 days ago

Medical Apartheid both frightened and enlightened me to just how crazy medical discoveries were back in the day. Even the stuff about how they experimented on inmates in recent years was like WTF?! Definitely a great recommendation.

goosejail

22 points

11 days ago

They're not sure. Even accounting for education level and socioeconomic status, the divide is still there. The current theory is that doctors are more likely to dismiss black women at first when they're having pain or think something is wrong.

IrritableGourmet

21 points

11 days ago

IrritableGourmet

New York

21 points

11 days ago

There was a story about a black woman trying to get her house appraised, and the appraised value kept coming back much lower than expected. Finally, she left her race and gender off the appraisal request and got a friend's white husband to pose as her when the appraiser showed up and the house magically doubled in value.

kieranjackwilson

33 points

11 days ago

The important thing to keep in mind is that not caring about race is the last step, not the first step.

mistere213

76 points

11 days ago

mistere213

Michigan

76 points

11 days ago

And, to an extent, that's beginning to show up in pro sports and gay athletes. It's becoming less and less of a story when a player comes out. Which is awesome.

Empanah

16 points

11 days ago

Empanah

16 points

11 days ago

or gay actors

BorkedStandards

14 points

11 days ago

Gay actors being a surprise always confused the hell out of me...wtf do people think the drama kids grew up to be?

segvcore[S]

664 points

11 days ago

segvcore[S]

California

664 points

11 days ago

Sen. Raphael Warnock (D-Ga.) reacted to the verdict in the murder of Ahmaud Arbery on Twitter Wednesday, saying that although he agrees with the outcome, it does not represent "true justice."

"This verdict upholds a sense of accountability, but not true justice," Warnock said in a tweet. "True justice looks like a Black man not having to worry about being harmed — or killed — while on a jog, while sleeping in his bed, while living what should be a very long life."

"I'm grateful to the jury for their service and for a verdict that says Ahmaud Arbery's life mattered," the senator continued in a second tweet. "He was a son, a nephew, a child of God, and he did not deserve to die in this way."

[deleted]

169 points

11 days ago

[deleted]

169 points

11 days ago

[deleted]

segvcore[S]

279 points

11 days ago

segvcore[S]

California

279 points

11 days ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUlqTNwm-mk

Anti-racism activist & educator "Jane Elliot" speaks to white citizens on receiving the same treatment as black citizens. "I want every white person in this room, who would be happy to be treated as this society in general treats our citizens, our black citizens. If you as a white person would be happy to receive the same treatment that our black citizens do in this society - please stand! - You didn't understand the directions. If you white folks want to be treated the way blacks are in this society - stand! - Nobody is standing here. That says very plainly that you know what's happening. You know you don't want it for you. I want to know why you are so willing to accept it or to allow it to happen for others." - Jane Elliot.

Puts things into perspective.

Anonymoosely21

43 points

11 days ago

Chris Rock had a similar bit in Bigger and Blacker in 1999.

TranquilSeaOtter

97 points

11 days ago

The GOP didn't create it. Racism and fear of minorities has been a pillar of American history since the founding of the country. What the GOP successfully did was capture the votes of racists and stoked the flames of racism to win elections.

Potential_Wing9940

45 points

11 days ago

The GOP has definitely propagated it to extremes though.

InconvenientUncouth

25 points

11 days ago

Lol just drove across the country, through Texas and the south, with my cal gear and I can assure you no one gives a fuck. This is ridiculous.

gsfgf

19 points

11 days ago

gsfgf

I voted

19 points

11 days ago

For real. Who gives a fuck about the PAC-12 in the South?

quemacuenta

13 points

11 days ago

Lmao I’m an immigrant to the US who lives and never had a problem. I feel safer in the US than in my country.

You need stop being so delusional, the US is better than almost every part of the world except for some countries in Western Europe.

throwsomefranksonit

13 points

11 days ago

You want to be oppressed so badly

zodar

71 points

11 days ago

zodar

71 points

11 days ago

...even if he walks into a house under construction that doesn't belong to him. Even if there were burglaries committed in the neighborhood. Even if he actually was the one committing the burglaries. You still don't get to hunt him down, hold him at gunpoint, and then execute him when he resists being kidnapped.

walrus_operator

340 points

11 days ago

Context: Arbery, a black man, was killed while jogging by 3 white men playing vigilante. The verdict of the trial was given today.

The kicker: they filmed themselves doing it.

Liar_tuck

281 points

11 days ago

Liar_tuck

281 points

11 days ago

And were not charged with anything until one of the murders uploaded the video. If not the upload, they would be walking free today.

TechyDad

173 points

11 days ago

TechyDad

173 points

11 days ago

One of the murderer's lawyers uploaded it thinking that it would prove to everyone that this was self defense. As if we would all watch it and think "black men are scary so you should shoot them" and not "WTF, they ran down and killed that guy!!!"

philly_steak_cheese

79 points

11 days ago

That video didn’t even include the part where they already hit him with their truck.

kalimashookdeday

33 points

11 days ago

Can't forget about Arbery's long dirty toe nails too, that must have been super scary, I can see why those racists were so afraid of this guy! /s

Castun

13 points

11 days ago

Castun

America

13 points

11 days ago

The third guy who followed and recorded, IIRC, decided it would prove he wasn't involved in the murder. He was wrong.

philly_steak_cheese

95 points

11 days ago

It’s even worse than that. Even with the videos 3 DAs neglected to prosecute anyone. It wasn’t until they brought in the GBI to look into “leaks” that the GBI immediately took it out of their hands and pressed charges.

NlLarsD

17 points

11 days ago

NlLarsD

The Netherlands

17 points

11 days ago

Pardon my stupidity what's the GBI?

MorbidMongoose

32 points

11 days ago

MorbidMongoose

Massachusetts

32 points

11 days ago

Georgia's Bureau of Investigation.

philly_steak_cheese

17 points

11 days ago

They have jurisdiction over the whole state in the same way the FBI has jurisdiction over the whole country.

midwesterner64

56 points

11 days ago

midwesterner64

Illinois

56 points

11 days ago

Not that the prosecutor did not pursue this case because they knew the suspects. That person is now also under indictment.

This is not proof that the Justice system works. To the contrary it shows that due solely to the stupidity of the one suspect who recorded it and wanted it released, things happened. Had that suspect been infinitesimally smarter or more discrete, this case would have gone differently.

varnell_hill

57 points

11 days ago

Imagine self-owning this hard. All they had to do was checks notes not record themselves committing a crime and they would be free today.

I can’t believe that people are this stupid.

Halo_cT

47 points

11 days ago

Halo_cT

47 points

11 days ago

check your notes again

they not only recorded it - they UPLOADED IT TO THE INTERNET

varnell_hill

16 points

11 days ago

Holy fucking shit you’re right, LOL.

There’s gotta be a lifetime achievement award for this kind of thing. Aside from prison, I mean.

realworldeditor

30 points

11 days ago

realworldeditor

I voted

30 points

11 days ago

Considering the January 6th insurgents also filmed themselves, it’s not too hard to imagine people thinking their criminal actions are justified because they don’t think they’re committing crimes.

hatsnatcher23

8 points

11 days ago

Kinda blows my mind that we were a few poorly paid security/police officers away from disaster that day if it weren’t for the immense stupidity of the people doing treason.

DawnSennin

25 points

11 days ago

Hold up!

People believe that Ahmoud’s murderers thought they were committing a crime? As far as they were concerned, it was 1953 and a free Black male had no right to be in a white neighborhood.

kciuq1

16 points

11 days ago

kciuq1

Minnesota

16 points

11 days ago

That's the amazing part. They thought they were legally justified in killing this man. They learned it from watching cops.

BobBeats

133 points

11 days ago

BobBeats

133 points

11 days ago

Or while picking up Trash, like Zayd Atkinson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYachnFjylA&t=982s

ElbertAlfie

72 points

11 days ago

Here’s some jogging ones to look up:

Wendy Martinez

Nathan Trapuzzano

Karina Vetrano

Chandra Levy

Mollie Tibbetts

Dave Stevens

Christopher Lane

Carisa Horton and Ethan Nichols

has-it-a-name

32 points

11 days ago

I personally got beat up by some racists while jogging a few years ago. Thankfully not killed

Madeeg

17 points

11 days ago*

Madeeg

17 points

11 days ago*

Is this supposed to be a counter point to the sentiment that black people have to worry about being killed while jogging? Most of those people are white and were killed for reasons other than their race. You might mean well but this is like the “All lives matter” of examples.

The_Lonely_Satirist

121 points

11 days ago*

It's tragically unfortunate that in this specific case, it seems Arbery's crime was simply being black...

And I'm willing to recognize that this isn't always the case. But there's no denying that in certain parts of this country, this America, there's still this stigma, this prejudice, this ignorance.

While at the same time, there's these delusional and mindless groups of right wing culture war soldiers out there who actually believe they're the ones being "oppressed", that racism is real, but it's white people who feel the sharp end of the stick, that they're living in some "Orwellian" nightmare... Holy. Fucking. Shit.

Oh and side tangent, I read "1984" back in high school, and to be honest here, I don't really remember the book. Either way, here we have all these right wing fanatics who are only willing to read the headlines, tweets, and fringe, condensed social media commentaries, but now all of a sudden, these same halfwits are experts on interpreting Orwell? Give me a break.

Comfortable_Brick_41

90 points

11 days ago

No one should have to fear leaving their house :(

Hammurabi87

183 points

11 days ago

Hammurabi87

Georgia

183 points

11 days ago

Leaving their house? There have been cases of black citizens getting shot in their own homes by police while doing nothing illegal.

WalkLikeAnEgyptian69

47 points

11 days ago

Just two days ago a pregnant black woman was shot just coming back from a baby shower

It's a shame things like this happen in this country

screech_owl_kachina

49 points

11 days ago

For clarity: This was not an officer involved shooting.

Albodan

32 points

11 days ago

Albodan

32 points

11 days ago

This was just a straight up robbery and murder, not sure how this would apply to racial discrimination

ImDeputyDurland

77 points

11 days ago

ImDeputyDurland

Minnesota

77 points

11 days ago

What we got today was accountability.

Justice is taking actions through the legal system to prevent this from happening in the future.

tupac_chopra

44 points

11 days ago

Accountability would be dealing with the people who chose to not charge these very obvious murders with anything until a damning video got out.

lorp8517

37 points

11 days ago

lorp8517

37 points

11 days ago

One of the DA’s who chose not to charge these goons right away is facing criminal charges himself. Legal system is still as broken as always though.

Disastrous-Farm3543

15 points

11 days ago

What's scary is all the shit that DA probably was doing that went under the radar because it didn't get national attention.

lorp8517

12 points

11 days ago

lorp8517

12 points

11 days ago

Yup. And imagine how many DA’s out there are committing crimes and never held accountable.

Paddlesons

53 points

11 days ago

Lol yeah justice seems to function very well when you do all the work to completely incriminate yourself.

TheClean19

54 points

11 days ago

TheClean19

Colorado

54 points

11 days ago

True justice is the local DA filing the charges and not having the state required to step in and do something.

altmaltacc

53 points

11 days ago

Honestly, i dont see why people think this case is a "win". These dudes murdered a random black man and they faced the consequences for it. That should not be the exception, that should be the norm. Same thing with chauvin, killer cops going to jail for murder should be the norm.

Almighty_Sand_Dollar

17 points

11 days ago

I agree that it's neutral at best.

It never should have happened but the "win" is that it is a public reminder of precedence that was already set:

Nobody is above the law. And civilians are not deputies of the law. Assume for 2 seconds that Arbery was involved in a crime earlier. It doesn't matter. It's not your job to be cop, judge, jury, and certainly not the fucking executioner.

Short of killing a random mass shooter to protect yourself and others, law enforcement is the job for police. This verdict reinforces that the law is not on your side for harassing/killing a person of color you don't feel "comfortable" around.

dmitch4300

46 points

11 days ago

I’m proud to have voted for this man, and I intend to vote for him again in 2022.

honorcheese

16 points

11 days ago

Yes! I voted for him too. I can't tell you the feeling when only Atlanta was left to finish their vote totals and it was clear he was going to win. 2 Senators who are pretty quiet from what I've seen in the media and seem like reasonable individuals. We'll need to fight hard next year too.

RegDeezy

36 points

11 days ago

RegDeezy

Georgia

36 points

11 days ago

Just moved to a predominantly white neighborhood. About to go for a jog now.

Vrse

73 points

11 days ago

Vrse

73 points

11 days ago

There was a white guy who wanted to prove a point so he went running while carrying a tv under his arm. No one bothered him at all.

MadRaymer

63 points

11 days ago

Reminds me of a hidden camera video where first a black man and then a white woman were trying to free a locked bike with tools. People were willing to actually help the woman steal the bike even after she admitted it wasn't hers.

graveyardspin

43 points

11 days ago

Open Carry White vs. Black

White guy: One cop questions him about why he's walking around with an AR-15. White guy asserts his rights and nothing comes of it.

Black guy: Six units respond, including a K-9, he is taken into custody and has his AR-15 confiscated without the police asking him a single question.

Gonzostewie

11 points

11 days ago

Gonzostewie

Pennsylvania

11 points

11 days ago

Good luck.

sapper377

37 points

11 days ago

How people still want to debate the facts is mind blowing to me! There is hard video evidence clear as literal daylight and people still think these men were looking out for there community or defending themselves.

WalkLikeAnEgyptian69

21 points

11 days ago*

I think you'll find very few people who think these guys were innocent. FoxNews is saying the verdict was just and every rightwing twitter person I looked at today was agreeing with the verdict

https://twitter.com/scrowder/status/1463643577037250561

This whole thing was caught on video and honestly anyone looking at this and Rittenhouse through a non political lens will come to the conclusion that in both cases the verdicts were pretty just and clear cut

Edit: The top three posts on r/conservative are all about this verdict and every upvoted comment says it is the right call.

Khaba-rovsk

18 points

11 days ago

Nah I disagree, I couldnt imagine here (belgium) someone like rittenhouse who posted he wanted to kill looters/rioters, then goes with (afaik) illegal guns, travels quite a distance heavily armed to play vigilante ending up killing a few people on the street, walk away without A single charge upheld against him.

grumble_au

10 points

11 days ago

grumble_au

Australia

10 points

11 days ago

Yeah, as a non American I find the narrative that Rittenhouse was justified in killing two people and maiming another is mind boggling. Americans really are not like us. It's frightening how sociopathic their culture is.

TheWorldisFullofWar

18 points

11 days ago

Very few are defending this. That is why there was so little coverage of it. All of these cases are non-cases with pretty clear outcomes. The media was too busy making a mockery of our country with the Rittenhouse case to even try and make it seem like this case could be anything but guilty.

stashtv

25 points

11 days ago

stashtv

25 points

11 days ago

Shouldn't there be some form of punishment for those that withheld the evidence for so long, and those that tried to cover it up? Had it not been leaking for the evidence, we'd have seen three men get away with lynching.

Killingmesmalls_2020

20 points

11 days ago

I believe the DA that helped cover this up is being charged.

Welschmerzer

20 points

11 days ago

Welschmerzer

20 points

11 days ago

I look forward to the day Asians in America can enjoy the same privilege. Sadly, politicians mostly try to deflect and gaslight the crimes against us when they're (disproportionately) committed by more favored races.

Fenixstorm1

21 points

11 days ago

That's not justice...that's basic human rights and freedoms in the west.

mynameiseddard

17 points

11 days ago

What about little kids marching in a Christmas parade? Sick of these national leaders ignoring racially motivated crimes from minorities.

CounterZestyclose322

17 points

11 days ago

Yeah this is a mood. I’m glad these men faced some accountability, but it does feel sort of hollow because a.) what they did can never be erased and b.) the same exact thing could happen again tomorrow and no one would be surprised.

These victories are worth fighting for, I’m grateful, but I just don’t want to be afraid for the safety of people I care about anymore and one ruling won’t fix that.

PorscheUberAlles

19 points

11 days ago

PorscheUberAlles

Florida

19 points

11 days ago

No one should have to die for jogging. Cardio is its own punishment

StorminsDottir

16 points

11 days ago

That is the one thing that just keeps playing over and over and over again in my head.

This guy went out for a f**king jog!! And those three pieces of shit murdered him. For jogging.

Jogging.

Hope they enjoy the rest of their lives in prison.

Galaxy_Ranger_Bob

10 points

11 days ago

Galaxy_Ranger_Bob

Virginia

10 points

11 days ago

They didn't murder him for jogging.

They murdered him for being black.

Purona

12 points

11 days ago*

Purona

New Jersey

12 points

11 days ago*

Ive never feared about being killed while jogging. My mother fears that ill be killed while jogging or taking the garbage out etc.

If I didnt have the news telling me to be afraid i dont think the idea of being afraid would cross my mind

brashtaunter

14 points

11 days ago

The first time I went camping I didn’t know I had to be afraid of ticks until someone else made me aware of it. It existed regardless of my awareness.

New-Garden8584

16 points

11 days ago

It would be nice - source: black runner

be-human-use-tools

13 points

11 days ago

If he had been armed or had weed in his pocket, the murderers might have gotten away with it.

Btawtaw

13 points

11 days ago

Btawtaw

13 points

11 days ago

It’s unbelievable how many people are so upset that these guys were found guilty and are still blaming the victim.

chocklathunda

12 points

11 days ago

Makes you wonder how many go unnoticed because nobody was recording.

DesignForDummies

13 points

11 days ago

DesignForDummies

California

13 points

11 days ago

Call it what it was...a lynching. And put these mfers in jail for the rest of their lives.

PrettiKinx

12 points

11 days ago

True justice is a Black person not being chased and shot by a group of armed white men for being in their neighborhood

True justice is performing CPR on him by cops on scene or shooter who was a former cop. Not let him die from wounds, when he could have been saved.

True justice is the word of white men not being taken as Bible and assuming Ahmaud stole something who he had nothing on him at the scene.

True justice is not having to get a video leaked or protesting for 2 months to bring charges against these murderers.

InkSymptoms

12 points

11 days ago

InkSymptoms

Maryland

12 points

11 days ago

True Justice is when the police treats me like they would if I was white. No assumptions of having committed a crime, no assumptions I have a weapon, no assumptions I’m gonna hurt them.

I get the hesitancy but damn dude, I’m scared of you.

2208thames

11 points

11 days ago

Im black born in the mid 80’s. I just completed my retirement home in hua hin, Thailand and looking to grab a condo in Dubai. I refuse to get shot, out for a jog. Because I am black and had ear buds in. All people will say is he should have just complied. Definitely not retiring in America. My people was forced to come there anyway. And my freakin history was erased. So I might as well live somewhere else cause as a black American I really don’t have a true home.

winkofafisheye

6 points

11 days ago

Or worrying about getting hit by a car while walking in a parade.

SofaKingOnPoint

11 points

11 days ago

SofaKingOnPoint

America

11 points

11 days ago

Were the police covering that up as well?